National Sales Tax to Replace Income Tax

[MRT144]

user fees?

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
yeah, but why tax goods at all? why even have a sales tax?

Good point LoA. Instead of taxing "goods", like labor income, why don't we tax "bads" like carbon emissions, and use the proceeds to lower income tax rates correspondingly? According to William Nordhaus' work (Sterling Professor of Economics at Yale), a tax of $10 per ton of carbon would set the benefits of emissions equal to the costs. This would raise the price US consumers pay for gasoline about three cents per gallon, and the price US consumers pay for coal-fired electricity about five percent.

Nordhaus' Model

Carbon Tax Estimates

Why carbon tax with rebate is better than emissions trading alone

[Berzerker]

user fees?

Yes, an example:

Road building and maintenance requires revenue - tax the use of roads, gasoline, or motor vehicles. We do it now thru the DMV and gas taxes - those are user fees...

[MRT144]

where does military funding come from?

[MRT144]

also in relation to sales tax, are art creation tools going to be taxed to high heaven?

[Berzerker]

where does military funding come from?

Lottery, voluntary donations or a user fee (or a combination of all 3). We essentially pay a user fee now for the military, it's just taken out of other taxes like the income tax.

[MRT144]

i see. so public school will cost money too... the problem im seeing is the poor people are still going to get hosed. And its going to be a case of tough nuts because of that?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
Good point LoA. Instead of taxing "goods", like labor income, why don't we tax "bads" like carbon emissions, and use the proceeds to lower income tax rates correspondingly? According to William Nordhaus' work (Sterling Professor of Economics at Yale), a tax of $10 per ton of carbon would set the benefits of emissions equal to the costs. This would raise the price US consumers pay for gasoline about three cents per gallon, and the price US consumers pay for coal-fired electricity about five percent.

What kind of a level do you need to replace income taxes? Also, this sort of taxes seem unfair as you place the burden on a selected group instead of having it spread through out the entire population.

This ignores the very idea of social justice as well.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Dauphin
40% tax on sale of shares. You'd have to make 40% growth just to recoup.

Yes, but there would be no income tax anymore.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
why do we need sin taxes? if you wanna do it, why should gvt tell you whats right and wrong? why should u be punished for hurting yourself?

You are ignoring total costs here.

Unless you are a hermit who lives outside the society, most actions you take have a social cost, and probably an environmental cost as well. In a capitalistic society, all these will eventually become a $$$ burden on the society.

Suppose you drink yourself to death, you incur a cost to the company that you are working for. They at least need to find somebody to replace you, and the work you are doing would need to be shared by other people, which increases their stress.

You see, it's not simple at all.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Not that I'm a republican, but dont you think that doing away with a large part of the IRS would be minimizing the federal government.

And then increasing the federal government's authority with a federal sales tax.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Um...you stopped reading after 1 sentence?

Here is what I said after that:

No, I didn't stop reading... let me quote your sentance again with re-emphasis.

Of course, we'd have to calculate the cost of doing business in those other countries to get the total effect, but the current tax structure favors foreign competition.

If you are really calculating the regulations and taxes in host countries, then the current tax structure favors domestic competition except for the most labor intensive goods. Companies from Japan or Europe pay much more in domestic taxes and regulations.

[Berzerker]

MRT -

i see. so public school will cost money too... the problem im seeing is the poor people are still going to get hosed. And its going to be a case of tough nuts because of that?

Parents who want their kids educated will have to band together with other parents and pay someone to educate their children. It ain't my responsibility to educate your kid... But this has nothing to do with a national sales tax...

Imran -

No, I didn't stop reading... let me quote your sentance again with re-emphasis.

That wasn't the sentence you quoted in your first response, this was the quote you used:

Unless tariffs on imports match the combined cost of corporate/business taxes and regulation, foreign businesses have an advantage

You ignored my following sentence which you effectively repeated in your response.

I said we'd have to calculate the cost of doing business in foreign countries to arrive at a final tally and then you repeated that as if it never crossed my mind.

If you are really calculating the regulations and taxes in host countries, then the current tax structure favors domestic competition except for the most labor intensive goods. Companies from Japan or Europe pay much more in domestic taxes and regulations.

If you look at where the bulk of our imports have been coming from in recent years, they are increasingly countries with a lower cost of doing business. Btw, I believe Japan has no capital or corporate tax...

If we have a corporate tax etc that we impose on IBM, and Indonesia or some other country doesn't, then IBM's competitor that has opened up shop in Indonesia has an advantage. We can eliminate or reduce that advantage with tariffs or quotas, but I'd rather see all business taxes in this country eliminated. If there is still an advantage due to regulatory costs that Americans won't give up, then we'd still need tariffs to offset the advantage.
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Now, it appears to me that just as the west had to go thru an industrial period to get to where we are today, the 3rd world has to follow the same path. The difference is when the west went thru it's growing pains it had no superior economies to help and the 3rd world does have that help - the west is transfering jobs and technology to the 3rd world.

This means some jobs are lost in the west but it also means the creation of gradually better jobs abroad and eventually more consumers. Tariff regimes that seek to punish people for buying foreign products (saving American jobs) serve to impoverish the 3rd world longer. Obviously that isn't the intent but that is the result...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

nice links AS. thanks

[chequita guevara]

Go for it. Cripple the Federal state! Make it easier for us commies.