Is ambition a virtue?

[Kuciwalker]

Of course! Being content is the opposite of being motivated.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
maybe i'm tired (i only slept 4 hours in the past 36) but none of yall are making any sense to me.

communism is said to not work because people are selfish (read ambitious, self-bettering). It is described as a common trait possessed by all but the most indoctrinated human beings. Men like Darwin, Spencer, and Nietzsche claimed this trait of self-concern is also the trait common to all organisms.

but from the posts that everybody in here has made, it seems as though yall see only a few men (Napoleon, Hitler, etc.) as having ambition, as though this trait isnt common to all organisms.

We see only some men as a) having ambitions satisfied by "ruling the world" or something as opposed to simple accumulation of luxuries, and b) having the ability to fulfill those ambitions.

[Al B. Sure!]

any life which lacks ambition (in a loose definition as a plant's ambition is different from a man's) is not living. It is dead for all practical purposes and will be physically dead shortly. It's cells will not possess the ambition for continual survival and will not break down nutrients.

[Kuciwalker]

Ambition is a meaningless term outside the context of sentient beings.

[Al B. Sure!]

why is that? Yes, ambition is synonymous with self-concern yet organisms that are not self-aware are still apparently self-concerned as they still feed and attempt to survive.

maybe i think on a whole different wavelength from yall but isnt ambition instinctual? humans have just imposed certain values upon our instinct for mere survival.

[Al B. Sure!]

unless you intend to disprove Darwin or claim that communism is probable, Kuci, I dont see how you can claim that ambition is not a trait common to all life.

[Ted Striker]

Alright so how does ambition differ from hope and self-preservation?

I'd say self-preservation is more of an instinctual thing

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
unless you intend to disprove Darwin or claim that communism is probable, Kuci, I dont see how you can claim that ambition is not a trait common to all life.

I'm saying that the term ambition is meaningless outside of the context of sentient beings. Ambition implies intention implies sentience. QED.

[Al B. Sure!]

ambition doesn't differ from self-preservation or hope. it is just we, as advanced beings, have imposed certain values over and in addition to mere survival. Such values vary between societies and cultures (material wealth, honor, power, offspring, etc.) but they are just additions to the instinctual need to survive. the same drives that cause us to wish to survive cause us to seek those values which our culture (or ourselves) have deemed of concern.

[Aramis]

Examples used are just that: examples. People we all know.
I don't want to be an organism that claims ambition because I want to survive. I have survived because I worked at it.
And I've gone beyond survival. I have ambition because I want more, notneed more.
I relate to Hal in the above mentioned Shkspr plays because I identify with him: the desire to want more fuels ambition. But that desire comes from boredom with what one has (assuming survival is assured).
Plankton may not realise they want to survive, but they strive for it. I used Napoleon and Prince Hal, as we know them from history and plays, as examples of plankton that got up and said, "I survived, now I'm bored and want more."

[Al B. Sure!]

Kuci:

Ambition implies intention implies sentience.

single-celled organisms eat and excrete wastes. why would they do such things if they didnt possess the instinctual intention to survive?

[Al B. Sure!]

Aramis:

but there is no difference between self-preservation/concern and ambition! they are different terms for the same definiton!

mere survival is only the first step in ambition/self-preservation/self-concern.

[Aramis]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
ambition doesn't differ from self-preservation

Self-preservation is survival.
Ambition is wanting more than that.

[Al B. Sure!]

will to power ----> self-concern ----> self-preservation ----> ambition ----> fulfilment of desires and formation of new desires

[Kuciwalker]

No, that's completely wrong. One can preserve oneself without fulfilling one's ambitions.