English! English! When did America stop speaking English?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Ramo
So how are we going to stop Latin Americans from coming into this country? Put our army on the border?

In any case, I happen to believe immigration barriers to be immoral.

No, actually enforcing our immigration policies is enough.

[Zero]

s00n j00 aLL w1LL b3 reQu1rEd tO L3aRn tEh L337 sp33K!!!!1!!!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


All above example involve military conquest, with immigration as a follow up.

Like the United States with California and Texas.

There is a reason for accepting the inevitability of a bilingual Spanish-English America- not only is Spanish spoken in various states in America, but the culture is part of 'America' too.

Another reason is Mexico- that country with Spanish speakers in across the border.

A country whose capital city is topping 20 000 000 inhabitants, and through whom Spanish speakers from, ah, more disadvantaged countries can get to the United States.

If you want fewer Spanish speaking immigrants influence American foreign policy. And the employment habits of American companies and politicians.

[MrFun]

When Molly fires off his artillery of logic and rationality, beware.

[Japher]

I don't care if they speak Spanish too, but they should learn English too. Don't bring culture into, as IMO, language is not bound to culture.

Bring us your starving and your poor... that's fine. Most Mexicans I know are workhorses, learn English fast, and are some of the nicest people I know. The ones that really bug me are the asians who don't even bother to respect American customs or even to teach their kids english.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Like the United States with California and Texas.

There is a reason for accepting the inevitability of a bilingual Spanish-English America- not only is Spanish spoken in various states in America, but the culture is part of 'America' too.

Another reason is Mexico- that country with Spanish speakers in across the border.

A country whose capital city is topping 20 000 000 inhabitants, and through whom Spanish speakers from, ah, more disadvantaged countries can get to the United States.

If you want fewer Spanish speaking immigrants influence American foreign policy. And the employment habits of American companies and politicians.

1. Requiring employers to check for proof of legal residencyis already part of immigration policy in the US.

2. US Foreign policy, from loan guarantees to Mexico, to trade policy with the Carib and Central America, to the 94 intervention in Haiti is clearly influenced by migration concerns, IMHO.

3. Spanish is spoken in various states - including the one I live in. But there are hispanics all over this country who are learning english - and IIUC there are plenty of 2nd and 3rd generation hispanics who hardly speak any Spanish

4. Culture being absorbed - you mean like we all eat tacos? well yeah, and we all eat pizza and bagels, but we Italian and Yiddish arent going to become widespread languages any time soon.

[Ramo]

Well, if we had no immigration barriers at all we would certain NOT become a mainly Spanish speaking country, since the number of Indians, Chinese, Bengalis, Africans etc would soon drive the wage level down to the point where this country would not be attractive to most Latin Americans.

There is a small matter of travelling halfway around the world. Besides, I wasn't talking about what would happen without immigration barriers (since clearly that's not going to happen in a long time).

And surely you dont think that current barriers have NO impact??

The point is that there's a whole lot of illegal immigration. It's not easy to stop immigration, particularly across a land border.

Once again people, hispanics in the US learn English, at the same rate across generations as other immigrants.

Why is it that everyone from antiimmigrant paleocons to pro multicultural anarchists cant seem to get this

I don't necessarily disagree with that. Although, there are certain populations that learn English faster than others, namely those without large enclaves to fall back on. The key point is that lots hispanic immigration is going to happen, unless we insanely authoritarian. And another key point is that hispanics tend to be relatively poor and Catholic, so spit out a lot of kids.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo
I don't necessarily disagree with that. Although, there are certain populations that learn English faster than others, namely those without large enclaves to fall back on. The key point is that lots hispanic immigration is going to happen, unless we insanely authoritarian. And another key point is that hispanics tend to be relatively poor and Catholic, so spit out a lot of kids.

there will certainly be lots of immigration. Maybe less than now, but maybe not. But theyll learn english despite the enclaves. And most immigrant groups historically were poor and had high birth rates (points to the huge families all my grandparents were part of)

Enclaves, mass immigration, poor, huge families. Turn back 100 years and youre on the Lower East side, with Jews and Italians. Nothing new here.

And IIUC, third generation hispanics are BY NO MEANS all poor.

[Japher]

And another key point is that hispanics tend to be relatively poor and Catholic, so spit out a lot of kids.

They spit out the kids for welfare, not because they are Catholic - I tried that one once and Italy proved me wrong.

3rd generation of the future doesn't put dinner on tonights table.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo

Well, if we had no immigration barriers at all we would certain NOT become a mainly Spanish speaking country, since the number of Indians, Chinese, Bengalis, Africans etc would soon drive the wage level down to the point where this country would not be attractive to most Latin Americans.

There is a small matter of travelling halfway around the world.

so thats why there arent any south asian immigrants where I live Or Koreans Or Africans Or middle easterners

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


so thats why there arent any south asian immigrants where I live Or Koreans Or Africans Or middle easterners

Austin, Texas, USA

maybe your getting a stilted view

[Ramo]

Before I respond, I'd like to point out that A. I'm a second generation South Asian (Bangladeshi) immigrant and that B. You know didly about Austin.

[Ramo]

so thats why there arent any south asian immigrants where I live Or Koreans Or Africans Or middle easterners

That's clearly not what I meant.

You imply that a large enough amount of these immigrants would come that they would depress wages to a level lower than those in most of Latin America. That's a ludicrous proposition. Do you think that everyone in India who really wants to come here can afford to do so?

And IIUC, third generation hispanics are BY NO MEANS all poor.

And I said that where?

The point is that the immigrants generally are.

They spit out the kids for welfare

[Japher]

yeah, yeah

[Ramo]

there will certainly be lots of immigration. Maybe less than now, but maybe not. But theyll learn english despite the enclaves.

I never argued otherwise (unless the demographics fundamentally change).

And most immigrant groups historically were poor and had high birth rates (points to the huge families all my grandparents were part of)

But not now. Nonhispanic immigrants tend to be richer or more educated than their hispanic counterparts. Which is why I only have one sibling.