English! English! When did America stop speaking English?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Sadly, many Americans seem to think it's perfectly okay that, when abroad, they walk up to people and start speaking in English. If we expect people to speak English here, then why shouldn't we be expected to speak the vernacular of a country when traveling there?

Well, in much of Europe, it's completely reasonable to expect that people will understand English - the simple fact is that they do. We ridicule my father because he speaks bad English; that he can usually make himself understood with English monoglots is not enough.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Sadly, many Americans seem to think it's perfectly okay that, when abroad, they walk up to people and start speaking in English. If we expect people to speak English here, then why shouldn't we be expected to speak the vernacular of a country when traveling there?

i have no problem with a tourist asking for help in their native language - its provided me with an occasional opportunity to practice my awful, rusty French

I think its the idea that there are parts of the country where it is becoming difficult to function in English that troubles some people.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Well, in much of Europe, it's completely reasonable to expect that people will understand Europe - the simple fact is that they do.

geez, I still cant understand Europe


Just loving this thread

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Japher


So true. I went to the asian market and the owners there spoke Vietnamese or Korean or something like that... Their second language was Spanish!

What??? Their second language was SPANISH and not English? Are you serious?

See THATS whats got some people nervous.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Where my niece and nephew live in Wisconsin, there are plenty of people whose families have been here for several generations who are primary German or Swede speakers, and their English is accented. Thank Abe Lincoln and Carl Schurz for that one.

There's still first-language Swedish speakers over there? Who'da thunk ...

Not to mention Norwegian bachelor farmers, or so Ive been told

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



geez, I still cant understand Europe


Just loving this thread

Damned Monolingualists!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


You mean, "per se?"



The "freaking" moron would be correct, as nobody has to speak English. As che noted, we have the Constitution to consider, and people can speak whatever damned language they choose.

If you don't like people speaking in Spanish, then don't speak to them. If you don't like employers hiring people who don't speak English well, complain to the companies or stop patronizing them. But please stop the nonsense that people are obligated to speak English in the U.S., because that's simply not the case.

While I agree with you and others in that Americans need to learn to live with the reality that many parts of our country is bilingual, to be fair, Tiamat is not angry that she cannot CHOOSE to speak with people who do not speak Spanish -- the problem that she claims she experiences, is when she does not have a choice, when she needs to rely on a clerk or whomever for a particular service.

How realistic would it be for her to boycott businesses in Texas, a state in which bilingualism is more prevalent, than say, Iowa?

[Natalinasmpf]

Bring your drawing pad next time, and draw the food you want.

If we had the telepathic matrix, we could understand each other, empathically, instinctively, without the need for a higher level language layer.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Most of the people in question are NOT descendants of pre-1848 hispanic communities

And there was no such requirement in the treaty, as the borders were still open.

Indeed, the prospect of such rights, and ultimately calls for autonomy or independence inspire some of the paranoia about hispanic immigration.

La reconquista, baby.

I would say that making claims for the Spanish language in the Southwest based on its pre-1848 history is NOT the way to get the US to take a positive approach to immigration and diversity.

Nobody needs to "make any claims" for anything. The ol' First Amendment takes care of that problem.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun


While I agree with you and others in that Americans need to learn to live with the reality that many parts of our country is bilingual, to be fair, Tiamat is not angry that she cannot CHOOSE to speak with people who do not speak Spanish -- the problem that she claims she experiences, is when she does not have a choice, when she needs to rely on a clerk or whomever for a particular service.

How realistic would it be for her to boycott businesses in Texas, a state in which bilingualism is more prevalent, than say, Iowa?

I'm sure there are a few businesses in Texas with white employees.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


I'm sure there are a few businesses in Texas with white employees.

You mean there are still white people who live in Texas? I thought all white people become dark skinned from the sun after living there.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Japher


So true. I went to the asian market and the owners there spoke Vietnamese or Korean or something like that... Their second language was Spanish!

When I lived there (not SJ, thank God, but I commuted past downtown when I worked at IBM), there were a lot of stores that went Vietnamese, Chinese, Spanish and English, in that order.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

And there was no such requirement in the treaty, as the borders were still open.

Id have to see the text of the treaty, im not sure how the borders being open would extend a right given to those present in the territories at the time and their descendants to future immigrants.



La reconquista, baby.

Nobody needs to "make any claims" for anything. The ol' First Amendment takes care of that problem.

Im still not sure how the first amendment applies to any of the policy solutions discussed on this thread. Noting that banning private conversations in Spanish was NOT one of said solutions.

Does Canada not have guarantees of free speech under whatever their fundamental law is? Yet Quebecs language laws are ok, and so are language requirements for new immigrants. Not that Im necessarily suggesting either of these for the US, but I doubt theyd be unconstitutional.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


What??? Their second language was SPANISH and not English? Are you serious?

See THATS whats got some people nervous.

A bunch of white bread ninnies worrying "Oh mah lawd, they's yellow hordes and lots of brown people all around us. See what happened when we let the coloreds off the back of the bus. Trent Lott was right."

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


I'm sure there are a few businesses in Texas with white employees.

surely she is not asking for a business with white employees, or even "anglo" employees, but for one with English speaking employees.