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English! English! When did America stop speaking English?

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  • Originally posted by lord of the mark


    1. Requiring employers to check for proof of legal residencyis already part of immigration policy in the US.

    2. US Foreign policy, from loan guarantees to Mexico, to trade policy with the Carib and Central America, to the 94 intervention in Haiti is clearly influenced by migration concerns, IMHO.
    There's policy and the law, and what actually happens.

    Let’s take a look at California’s not too distant history with regard to the employment of Spanish speakers of Mexican descent, or recent Mexican immigrants.

    In 1970, two and a quarter million Mexican-Americans lived in California, and at the time, 90 000 crossed the border with passes to look for work.

    Only relatively recently had they formed agricultural unions to improve the working practices and conditions which they were subject to.

    Norman Lewis, in the Sunday Times dated 1st February, 1970, wrote:

    ‘Poverty in the richest state in the richest land is more abject than anything to be seen, in, say, Northern Europe. A grape picker works 82 days in a year, and the average migrant’s income is.... less than half the amount a U.S. family requires to live above the poverty line. Until recently some workers were kept behind barbed wire...

    U.S. citizens of Mexican origin are a very much depressed minority... Eighty per cent of them are housed in slums. Their children average two years less at school than the children of Negroes and four years less than the children of whites, and they are still punished for speaking Spanish within earshot of their teachers...
    Later they are likely to find that, whatever their scholastic achievements, only menial employment will be offered them....

    The picture of exploitation on the Victorian model is completed by the presence of child labour. When I was in Delano, last November, the local paper, the Fresno Bee, reported the case of Teresa Arellano, a girl of eight, who worked a 70 hour week on a grape ranch... by my own experience the spectacle of young children at work in conditions which are arduous and even dangerous for an adult is commonplace indeed...

    When the Guimarra Vineyards-largest of the growers- was tried and convicted on nearly forty violations of child labour and health laws, it was fined a total of U.S. $ 1,000 by the Kern County Superior Court- and the fine was suspended.

    (Cesar Chavez on the conditions of grape picking)

    ‘It’s degrading. Dehumanizing. After an hour or two everybody gets in such a mess you can’t tell a man from a woman.’

    It is rare in the fields for proper drinking water to be available, or any form of latrine provided. More seriously, in recent years growers have taken to the use of toxic sprays that have caused innumerable cases of severe illness and some deaths. Workers are housed in compounds on company property which members of Chavez’s organization are frequently prevented from inspecting, and are said, at worse, to resemble concentration camps.’

    Referring to another investigation, the report in the Sunday Times had this to say:

    ‘Of nearly 800 workers interviewed, practically all showed signs of poisoning, and 163 reported five or more of the following symptoms:

    vomiting, abnormal fatigue, abnormal perspiration, difficulty in breathing, loss of fingernails, loss of hair, itching in the ears, nose bleeds, swollen hands and feet, and diarrhoea.

    The first field worker I spoke to in Delano was a cook in one of the immigrant camps- I noticed that the man’s hands looked like a leper’s at the stage just before the fingers drop off.’

    (The cook explained he had been out in the fields when an aeroplane sprayed the vineyards, but the spray wasn’t vaporizing properly and fell in droplets).’

    In any case, the worker would not have been able to tell what pesticide fell on him, because there were court orders (!) forbidding the agricultural commissioner from revealing the composition of some of the pesticides used.

    When the grape pickers went on strike, the then governor, Ronald Reagan, called the strike ‘immoral’ and an ‘attempted blackmail of free society’.


    'you mean like we all eat tacos? '




    And no, by culture, I don't mean just tacos. If I had meant only cuisine, I would have said so.

    And please, don't get me started on the sorry history of U.S. foreign policy and intervention in Central and South America.

    Even recently, from Guatemala in the 50s to Nicaragua and El Salvador in the 70s and 80s, lawful migration was the least of their concerns- else why prop up brutal regimes that cause people to flee their homelands in thousands?

    Oh wait, I'm getting something- a cheap labour pool, scared of immigration, that'll work for peanuts in atrocious conditions.


    Now that sounds familiar.
    Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

    ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

    Comment


    • Norman Lewis, in the Sunday Times dated 1st February, 1970
      It ain't 1970, thanks to Ceaser Chavez, who, by the way, spoke English.
      Monkey!!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Japher


        It ain't 1970, thanks to Ceaser Chavez, who, by the way, spoke English.
        No sheet?



        So does Linda 'What illegal?' Chavez.

        'While much remains to be done in this area, we have largely ignored the need to reduce demand for illegals at the same time. This reduction in demand itself has two parts, related to the two forces which draw people to immigrate illegally: jobs and family.

        The first magnet is jobs. Until 1986, federal law explicitly permitted employers to hire illegal aliens. In that year, Congress banned the employment of illegals as part of a package that also included amnesty for nearly 3 million illegal aliens already here.

        Unfortunately, the ban on jobs for illegals has been poorly enforced. To begin with, Congress pulled its punches in 1986 by not instructing the Immigration and Naturalization Service to develop a verification system enabling employers to quickly check whether a new hire had the right to work in the U.S. It wasn't until 10 years later that Congress required the start of even pilot verification programs.

        Even without such a tool, the INS has labored to enforce the law. And despite all the money thrown at the INS in recent years, Congress has refused to increase funding for worksite enforcement, so that there are now the equivalent of only 300 full-time INS agents nationwide trying to enforce the ban on hiring illegals.

        What's more, even when the INS does try to stop the employment of illegals, Congress reacts with outrage and forces it to stop. For instance, in 1998, INS raids in Georgia caused the illegal workers picking Vidalia onions to flee. By the end of the week, both of the state's senators and three representatives sent a scathing letter to Attorney General Reno protesting the "lack of regard for farmers" by the INS. And when, in response, it developed a kinder, gentler enforcement tactic, focused initially on meatpacking plants in Nebraska, the political uproar was again so great that the INS backed off.

        In fact, about a year ago Robert Bach, then a top INS official, admitted that the law was no longer being enforced: "It is just the market at work, drawing people to jobs, and the INS has chosen to concentrate its actions on aliens who are a danger to the community." '




        Cesar 'Yanqui' Chavez:

        'Chavez began school at age 7, but he found it difficult because his family spoke only Spanish. Chavez preferred to learn from his uncles and grandparents, who would read to him in Spanish. '



        'He did not like school as a child, probably because he spoke only Spanish at home. The teachers were mostly Anglo and only spoke English. Spanish was forbidden in school. He remembers being punished with a ruler to his knuckles for violating the rule. He also remembers that some schools were segregated and he felt that in the integrated schools he was like a monkey in a cage. He remembers having to listen to a lot of racist remarks. He remembers seeing signs that read whites only. He and his brother, Richard, attended thirty­seven schools. He felt that education had nothing to do with his farm worker/migrant way of life. In 1942 he graduated from the eighth grade. '

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        Hmm, sounds like he spoke Spanish too.

        'According to projections that assume racial and ethnic groups will not intermarry, the Hispanic population will be 24 percent of the overall population in 2050 (currently 13 percent), the Asian population will be nine percent (currently 4 percent) and the black population will continue to be 12 percent. Less than a third of all minorities will be black in 2050.'

        Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

        ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

        Comment


        • Re: English! English! When did America stop speaking English?

          Originally posted by Tiamat
          OMG!!! I'm not usually one to say anything about stuff like this but CRAP I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

          I go through McDonalds and literally have to give my order to the person 5 times and finally I have to revert to speaking spanish to them just to get them to understand my order. Even with that they get it wrong so I call to let the manager know and guess what? You got it.......he not speaka the english to good either, spanish. To which I asked him why when I live in America where everyone is supposed to speak English was it necessary for me to speak spanish just to get my order taken? And what happens to the other people who don't know how to speak spanish?

          Two days later I'm at the Diamond Shamrock (gas station) I go in and in very plain English I say......... five dollars on three please. Response: Blank stare. Five dollars on three please. Response: Ughhhh ok three dollar. No I want to put five dollars of gasoline into my car and my car is on pump three. Response: ok. So I think ok pay and go to pump gas and can you guess? Of course you can, they didn't understand what I wanted. So I go back in and try to explain to Habeeebb behind the counter what I want. He still doesn't get it so I think I'll try her.....no luck. 4 count them 4 people behind the counter and none of them can decipher English becuase they are all from Napal. And when they count change back they count it back to you in their language.

          Go to the grocery store and every label now is in spanish and english. You call places and get the automated system and you are asked for English press one for spanish press two. When did English even become an option? When imigrants who came over from other countries and landed on Ellis island they knew that they would have to learn english because this was America and that's what we spoke.

          Why do we give in to this? So my thinking may be off on this but damn!!! If you come to this country we speak english here learn it. Why is it our responsibility to change our language? In Texas here it's worse because we are so close to the Mexican border and they are always crossing over. I understand this. I know they want a better way of life for themselves and their family and I don't begrudge anyone that opportunity. But if you come to America expect to speak and learn english or leave! Stop expecting us to provide extra teachers so that the students who only speak spanish can go to our American schools.
          McDonalds?

          eat at better places

          Comment


          • I agree it's sad that in this country someone can't do business using English. OF course, it's a situation where it can be hard to have a policy that will work well, so the best solution is to simply boycott businesses whose employees don't speak ENglish.
            "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

            "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

            Comment


            • if asians have to learn english to get by in these united states, learning completely different grammatical structures, i don't see why it's so goddamn hard for anybody who speaks spanish, which is in the same ****ing language family, for chrissakes, to learn english.
              B♭3

              Comment


              • spanish is a roman language, while english is a german language (or whatever the correct terms are ).
                "An archaeologist is the best husband a women can have; the older she gets, the more interested he is in her." - Agatha Christie
                "Non mortem timemus, sed cogitationem mortis." - Seneca

                Comment


                • yeah, but they are both Indo - European
                  "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Q Cubed
                    if asians have to learn english to get by in these united states, learning completely different grammatical structures, i don't see why it's so goddamn hard for anybody who speaks spanish, which is in the same ****ing language family, for chrissakes, to learn english.
                    Asians are smarter than most races.

                    Comment


                    • Asians are smarter than most races.
                      Yeah! but their eyesight is the shiznit... they should be made to take buses
                      Monkey!!!

                      Comment


                      • holy crap
                        "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by molly bloom
                          Right back atcha!
                          How so? You just proved my point. 68 percent of the panel said my usage was just fine. Nyah.
                          Tutto nel mondo è burla

                          Comment


                          • I'm just curious:

                            How many people here have lived abroad for any length of time or immigrated to another country? I think that once one goes through the immigrant experience, they are more sympathetic to others...

                            As for Spanish becoming more prevelent, many Hispanic customers that I deal with at work are put off that I speak Spanish to them and prefer to communicate in broken English. I suppose it's just a choice...
                            If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.

                            Comment


                            • I support mexicans speaking Spanish in the U.S.

                              You forget Tia, we are living in Mexican territories. We stole their land from them. I live in Las Vegas- formerly Mexican territory. You live in Texas, also mexican territory.

                              In this case I support my libertarian tendencies. You don't force people to speak a certain language.

                              If you don't like their service, go somewhere else. You support with your pocketbook. This forces the employer to fire their non-english speaking employee. And forces the employee to learn English or move back to Mexico.

                              The capitalist system works Tia. Trust me.

                              Comment


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                                We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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