I, Robot

[Kuciwalker]

If happiness is derived through something that is not in your own self interest

Happiness can't be derived from something that is not in your self-interest, because anything from which you derive happiness is in your self-interest!

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

what makes me happy isn't in my self-interest in the first place.

But you know it makes you happy and being happy is in your self interest. So you are doing it in your self-interest (ie, to be happy).

But you're forgeting that being happy isn't in my self interest in this case.

[General Ludd]

You can overdose on drugs in a quest for happiness. Is that in your self interest?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

If happiness is derived through something that is not in your own self interest

Happiness can't be derived from something that is not in your self-interest, because anything from which you derive happiness is in your self-interest!

Explain to me how not wanting a dog to suffer is in my own self interest.

You can't just say "because it makes you happy" because that doesn't explain how being happy in a dog not sufering is in my own interest.

For it to be in my own interest, I have to benefit from it some how and, again, benefiting through happiness that is in turn not derived by something which is in my own interest is not in my own self interest.


You are stuck in a feedback loop and are refusing to step out of it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But you're forgeting that being happy isn't in my self interest in this case.

Of course it is. Being happy is always in your self-interest.

You can overdose on drugs in a quest for happiness. Is that in your self interest?

Actually, yes. The only reason you'd take all those drugs is self-interest. You want to guy super high, you want to be super happy. Or you can't take the world anymore and you want to die. It is in your self-interest to take those pills for either goal you want. If you die in your quest for happiness, you die. But you can't say it wasn't a self-interested action.

For the rest of the debate I'll defer to Kuciwalker since he seems to be on exactly the same page as me. Just imagine me saying 'ditto' .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Explain to me how not wanting a dog to suffer is in my own self interest.

Because if the dog suffers you will be sad. It will make you feel worse. You take care of the dog because it makes you feel better. It is in your self interest to do things that make you feel better.

This is not hard. I don't understand how you CANNOT see how it isnt in your own self interest to take care of the pup.

Oh, NOW, I'll defer to Kuciwalker... I swear .

[General Ludd]

So you're saying overdosing is in your self interest? Ok. I think we have firmly established that your position is ridiculous now, no need to go on any further.

Nice of you dump it all on Kucinich at this point, though.


EDIT:

Because if the dog suffers you will be sad. It will make you feel worse. You take care of the dog because it makes you feel better. It is in your self interest to do things that make you feel better.

This is not hard. I don't understand how you CANNOT see how it isnt in your own self interest to take care of the pup.

Yes, it isn't hard. When you completely ignore my argument and even remove the points that refute you from the quote you are replying to.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why is it ridiculous? It is quite obvious. You are taking all those drugs for a reason. You aren't doing it unconsciously. You want to take all those drugs. Therefore, it is a self-interested action. Overdosing is a consequence of those self-interested actions.

Why can't self-interested actions be self-destructive as well? Drug use is a self-interested action (above most other things) and yet is self-destructive. If you don't believe that then the only ridiculous position is yours.

Have you never heard of people saying of them who committed suicide "How selfish of them?"

[Imran Siddiqui]

completely ignore my argument and even remove the points that refute you from the quote you are replying to.

I'm not ignoring your arugment in any way, shape, or form. I'm pointing out how flawed your argument is.

Let's take the rest of your quote which you contend 'refute me'

benefiting through happiness that is in turn not derived by something which is in my own interest is not in my own self interest.

You are benefiting (you admit it here) through happiness in an action which you believe is not in your own interest. But you BENEFIT THROUGH HAPPINESS! It IS in your own self interest, or else you wouldn't benefit through happiness through it.

[Kuciwalker]

So you're saying overdosing is in your self interest?

Yes, at least your perceived self-interest. It makes you happier than the alternative (or you think it does), thus it has a higher utility, therefore taking it is in your perceived self-interest.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why can't self-interested actions be self-destructive as well? Drug use is a self-interested action (above most other things) and yet is self-destructive. If you don't believe that then the only ridiculous position is yours.

Yeah, why can't self destruction be in your self interest? Thats a good question.

But you BENEFIT THROUGH HAPPINESS!

You, again, leave out a crucial point... it is happiness that isn't in your own interest.


Let's tackle this from the other angle. How is being saddened at the suffering of others selfish?

Oh wait, let me guess... 'dar, it's 'cause you ain't happy!'


I'll say it again, and every time you make a new post compltely ignoring it you can come back up here and look at it again and again and again, and ignore it over and over and over. If you are going to use happiness as an end-all be-all explanation to everything, you had better damn well look at the reason behind the happiness itself or it is meaningless.

[Kuciwalker]

You, again, leave out a crucial point... it is happiness that isn't in your own interest.

Yes it is. It is the very definition of your self-interest, your happiness. Nothing is useful except for it's utility (duh), which is happiness.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Oh, NOW, I'll defer to Kuciwalker... I swear .

Thanks a lot, dump it all on me, why don't ya?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

You, again, leave out a crucial point... it is happiness that isn't in your own interest.

Yes it is. It is the very definition of your self-interest, your happiness. Nothing is useful except for it's utility (duh), which is happiness.

Happiness is an emotion, it has no utility beyond rewarding you for actions.

Actions which, in this case, are not in your self interest.

[Kuciwalker]

Happiness is an emotion, it has no utility beyond rewarding you for actions.

Happiness is utility.