A socialist alternative to a vcommand economy

[Al B. Sure!]

meritocracies (which the corporate world is) are always more efficient than democracies. co-ops tend to be mismanaged and go bankrupt with a few exceptions.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

DEFINITELY sounds like our system of government.

That's the point isn't it? Our system is terribly inefficient, but we say, why not, we are dealing with social stuff. We generally want our economics to be efficient, however.

Economics is social stuff.

[Agathon]

That's the point isn't it? Our system is terribly inefficient, but we say, why not, we are dealing with social stuff. We generally want our economics to be efficient, however.

Our economic system is worse. What else can one say about a system that is in the process of causing environmental catastrophe that will lead to appalling results that nobody wants, but which is structured so as to make it in the interest of the primary wreckers to bribe politicians, buy media time and pay sophists to downplay the evidence.

Capitalism is narrow minded and stupid. Any child can see what's wrong with it, a pity too many adults have their heads up their arses.

[Harry Tuttle]

Edit: Ah screw it. These threads always turn into a boring crap fest anyhow.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Agathon


Our economic system is worse. What else can one say about a system that is in the process of causing environmental catastrophe that will lead to appalling results that nobody wants, but which is structured so as to make it in the interest of the primary wreckers to bribe politicians, buy media time and pay sophists to downplay the evidence.

Capitalism is narrow minded and stupid. Any child can see what's wrong with it, a pity too many adults have their heads up their arses.

[Kidlicious]

Well, it's going to turn into a crap fest when someone says look at the USSR.

[Az]

Btw, one of the best sources for the SU, I've even seen. It's rather brief though.

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/soviet-union/

[Odin]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
meritocracies (which the corporate world is) are always more efficient than democracies. co-ops tend to be mismanaged and go bankrupt with a few exceptions.

They are meritocracies in name only. In the modern world the only reason for the existance of a company is to make money for shareholders. Employees make the company go, they should have the power. Meritocracies have a nasty tendency of becoming corrupt oligarchies. As I said before, AS, you should see the local gas station Co-op and the local ag co-ops, they are definately not mismanaged.

[Kidlicious]

A corporation may be efficient, but the system that it works within be inefficient. While some resources are overexploited, well trained and efficient workers are unemployed. People live like crap and are helpless against the system.

[Kuciwalker]

I'm sorry, but giving everyone the vote in a corporation probably would not be very advantageous. I could see the larger population of the inexperienced and undereducated making poor decisions as to the future of the company. Then again, if the company is of the professional kind, (ie. a law firm, accounting firm) with smart, highly educated, and experienced employees then it might work.

Law firms aren't corporations. They're partnerships. They already operate like this.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Economics is social stuff.

And also not. It's beyond mere 'social stuff', like say abortion. We actually want efficiency in economics, when it doesn't enter the equation in other social matters.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Economics is social stuff.

And also not. It's beyond mere 'social stuff', like say abortion. We actually want efficiency in economics, when it doesn't enter the equation in other social matters.

We always want efficiency whenever the term is applied. It seemed to me that you were implying that we shouldn't care how economics impacts our society, only that it is efficient. Really, you can't have efficiency where you have a negative impact on society. A negative impact on society is inefficient by default.

[Imran Siddiqui]

you can't have efficiency where you have a negative impact on society

Who says there is a total negative impact on society? The negative impacts are overshadowed by the greater positive impacts. The greater the efficiency, the greater the positive impact on society. We look at economics and say, hey there is some negative impact here, but we like the greater positive impact and that negates the negative impact.

We always want efficiency whenever the term is applied.

No, we don't really want efficient government. Most people want the government to 'not get in the way', at least they do in the US.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

you can't have efficiency where you have a negative impact on society

Who says there is a total negative impact on society? The negative impacts are overshadowed by the greater positive impacts. The greater the efficiency, the greater the positive impact on society. We look at economics and say, hey there is some negative impact here, but we like the greater positive impact and that negates the negative impact.

The word efficiency is commonly misused. The negative impacts are usually not counted. Economic growth is not the end goal of society, but efficiency is commonly used to me the use of available resources to produce the greatest economic growth. It seemed to me that you were making this mistake.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

We always want efficiency whenever the term is applied.

No, we don't really want efficient government. Most people want the government to 'not get in the way', at least they do in the US.

Do you want to think about whether you want efficient govt or not? Your taxes are effected by whether or not it is.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Do you want to think about whether you want efficient govt or not?

Oh, I know I wouldn't. Government waste is definetly preferable to dictatorship .

It seemed to me that you were making this mistake.

Naw, not me . I know there are negative impacts... but my point, in the end, is that people VIEW economics as different than things such as abortion. They'll accept negative impacts much more if the positive impacts outweigh them.