A socialist alternative to a vcommand economy

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


My question is how you prevent there being someone around to offer more. Even in a co-op setting, if I am a proven manager, or a geologist with a knack for finding lucrative mineral deposits or whatever . .. . there will be an incentive to pay me more if I can add value.

If someone isn't willing to pay me more, I will just iopen up my own shop and take all the profits of my labours for myself-- Since I will be a worker appropriating the efforts of my own labors, I'm sure no one will have a problem with it even if I make 10 million a year

I have no confidence that worker capitalism can be made efficient.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

#7, more democracy is always better.

Even if it results in capitalism?

Capitalism is inherently undemocratic.

[Kidlicious]

bump

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Capitalism is inherently undemocratic.

1) you missed my point - democracy can result in people voting to implement capitalism. Duh.

2) Capitalism is completely constistent with democracy. The State just isn't all-encompassing. Pity

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Skywalker,

You have a dangerously inadequate knowledge of economics. Stop acting like a PhD.

You have a dangerously inadequate knowledge of WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT. Stop acting like you do.

Here's the definition of utility out of the Oxford dictonary of Economics.

utility A synonym for individual welfare. A utility function gives an individual's welfare as an increasing function of the various goods they consume and a decreasing function of various types of work performed.

utility

\U*til"i*ty\, n. [OE. utilite, F. utilit['e], L. utilitas, fr. utilis useful. See Utile.] 1. The quality or state of being useful; usefulness; production of good; profitableness to some valuable end; as, the utility of manure upon land; the utility of the sciences; the utility of medicines.

The utility of the enterprises was, however, so great and obvious that all opposition proved useless. --Macaulay.

2. (Polit. Econ.) Adaptation to satisfy the desires or wants; intrinsic value. See Note under Value, 2.

Value in use is utility, and nothing else, and in political economy should be called by that name and no other. --F. A. Walker.

3. Happiness; the greatest good, or happiness, of the greatest number, -- the foundation of utilitarianism. --J. S. Mill.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Serial killers excel at killing. This is not something we want to encourage, just because they are good at it. Corporations are dangerous to indiviudals, the environment, society, etc.

ANYTHING is dangerous to an individual, the environment, or society if it breaks the laws. DUH! By your logic, you are a danger to society, because you could go out and kill people.

They are only good for making a profit,

And providing goods and services.

Hell, you work for Citibank, don't you? Is that only good for "making a profit"?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You have a dangerously inadequate knowledge of WHAT THE HELL I'M TALKING ABOUT. Stop acting like you do.

We're talking about economics. You aren't. You don't even know what you are talking about.

[Kuciwalker]

No, we weren't. We were talking about the behavior of rational agents. In that context (basically AI), my definition of utility is correct and yours is retarded.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No, we weren't. We were talking about the behavior of rational agents. In that context (basically AI), my definition of utility is correct and yours is retarded.

What the hell makes you think we are talking about AI? Tell me exactly where you get that from the title or the original post.

[Kuciwalker]

Were you following the argument with che? Reread it, then come back to me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Were you following the argument with che? Reread it, then come back to me.

You started on this before you even mentioned AI, and we were talking about economics (specifically self-interest). Imran was the first to mention it. Later you started talking about AI. Knock off the BS.

[Kuciwalker]

Notice when I started talking about "rational agents"?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Notice when I started talking about "rational agents"?

That's a term created by economists anyway.

[Kuciwalker]

It's a term created by game theorists. Related, but seperate fields. Anyway, in any discussion of those "utility" DOES mean "happiness" - they both refer to the agent's function for determining which result is best and thus which action to carry out.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's a term created by game theorists. Related, but seperate fields. Anyway, in any discussion of those "utility" DOES mean "happiness" - they both refer to the agent's function for determining which result is best and thus which action to carry out.

The idea of a rational agent was created by economists even before Adam Smith. The term was coined by economists at the University of Chicago before game theory even started.

Let me just ask you what AI has to do with all this.