What's your Stance on America?

[Jamski]

SPIFFOR!

Bonjour mon ami!

Ca va?

-Jam

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So you disagree that the US has the power (and if it has the power, then the responsibility) to spread democracy and freedom?

I disagree with the idea that the US should rule the world to impose its vision of good. And especially to create democracies at gunpoint.

We already see the results of bringing the superior idea of the Nation-State to Africa.

[Spiffor]

Ca va, merci

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

I don't really think so. Michael Moore and others oppose the leadership, they oppose the methods. But I have yet to see somebody who opposes the idea that the US has it all to make the world a better place, a place that looks more like it, and a place where the US bears the vision of the future.

So you disagree that the US has the power (and if it has the power, then the responsibility) to spread democracy and freedom?

It certainly has the power to influence the world and to have a wonderfull effect. Unfortunately, it has no real desire to make the world a better place for anyone but those who have influence within the govt and society.

And the world knows that. Only too many Americans are fooled by that kind of rhetoric.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
Kid is biased because he lives in Fresno... If I based my rating off of Fresno only I would of given it far worse than I did.

I like it here actually. I've moved back here 3 times now.

[aaglo]

Wasn't Augusto Pinochet installed by USA (or actually CIA)? Or was that just one of my misunderstandings

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by aaglo
Wasn't Augusto Pinochet installed by USA (or actually CIA)? Or was that just one of my misunderstandings

Pinochet was installed by the forces of capitalism, not just the CIA.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by MikeH

A lot of stuff in both our countries is excellent but it's not perfect. The concept that saying something bad about the US makes you anti-Americans is one of the great right wing propoganda success stories of the last 20 years.

That goes back to the 1950s, at least. The 1950s were America at its most monolithic.

[KrazyHorse]

At least there was an excuse for that.

[Q Classic]

ghengis, i'll say this again.

To me there's a difference between "installed" and supported.

I don't remember the US conquering Iraq and then declaring Saddam our Regent to run it.

in the aftermath of ww2, korea was partitioned into the stalinist north and the authoritarian south. stalin installed KIM il-sung as dictator of the north after mock elections. truman and the us government installed syngman RHEE as dictator of the south after mock elections.
neither the us or the soviets decided to wait for the agreement that there would be free, nation-wide elections. it was more expedient to have prawns in a game of global politics than to actually work out what was best of the recently freed people.

The US has supported a lot of dictatorships because they made deals or were working towards objectives the US was interested in. But, I don't feel the US has installed dictatorships so much and simply funded as backed local leaders that were pro-US objectives at the time.

after the installation of syngman RHEE, the us then supported the coup d'etat of PARK chung-hee, for one, and supported other strongmen like CHUN doo-hwan.

in the philippines and indonesia, it's not too different of a story, either.

[Kuciwalker]

it was more expedient to have prawns in a game of global politics than to actually work out what was best of the recently freed people.

prawns

[Q Classic]

prawns

prawns are good, but i don't think anybody will catch the reference unless i mention it.

for the longest time, korea's been known as a "shrimp between whales". therefore, pawn/prawn play on words.

[Japher]

I like it here actually. I've moved back here 3 times now

I like it too... I'll be there this weekend to see my neice and nephews

[Bereta_Eder]

Spiffor somewhere you wrote that the US was the most "kind" of superpowers. I cant be arsed to go back and see where i dont read all this BS, but I wanted to put forth a proposition.

By what measure to you count this? Because let's say the Romans (which you mentioned) never murdered millions of people directly and indirectly.

So if you count kindness by the number of people murdered I think the US tops the bill as the most brutal power to ever smear the face of this earth and now doubt it will be continued to be thought of as such...


So I think you made a mistake there.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by paiktis22
By what measure to you count this? Because let's say the Romans (which you mentioned) never murdered millions of people directly and indirectly.

That's such ****ing idiotic statement given relative population densities.