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Study says "For Profit" hospitals cost more than non-profits

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  • Study says "For Profit" hospitals cost more than non-profits

    Study: For-profit hospitals bill bigger


    WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- U.S. hospitals owned by investors with the aim of making money are less cost-efficient than nonprofits, Canadian researchers said.

    And experts who wrote a commentary on the study said converting all investor-owned hospitals to nonprofit status could have saved $6 billion in 2001.

    The report, published in Monday's issue of the Canadian Medical Association Journal, adds fuel to the debate over whether health care should follow a business model.

    Dr. P.J. Devereaux and colleagues at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, reviewed medical studies on hospital care in the United States, covering 350,000 patients and hundreds of hospitals.

    Devereaux, a cardiologist, said he had to study U.S. hospitals because "the U.S. is really the only country which has any large degree of investor-owned, for-profit health facilities," he said in a telephone interview.

    But he said he wanted to contribute to a debate over Canadian health care.

    "In Canada, there has been an intense debate for a number of years now over whether we should move beyond our current not-for-profit health care facility," he said.

    "We all want to know what is the most effective way to deliver health care," he added. "It should be driven by evidence, not people's ideology."


    More costs, more deaths

    Devereaux and colleagues earlier showed that for-profit hospitals had higher death rates.

    "The reality is that for-profits face significant economic challenges. The first is they have to generate revenues that will satisfy shareholders," Devereaux said.

    "Second, they have high executive bonuses. Thirdly, they are very top-heavy and have high administrative costs. Also, they have to pay taxes. That is a lot of extra money that they have to come up with," Devereaux added.

    "Instead of finding new efficiencies, folks were cutting corners in quality health care, and also people were having to pay more for care."

    In a commentary published in the journal, Dr. Steffie Woolhandler and Dr. David Himmelstein of Harvard Medical School commented that 13 percent of all U.S. hospitals are for-profit, and said converting them to nonprofit status could have saved $6 billion of the $37 billion spent on care at investor-owned hospitals in 2001.

    Woolhandler and Himmelstein, both prominent in a group called Physicians for a National Health Program, have long argued for comprehensive, nonprofitmaking health insurance for all Americans.

    "Investor-owned hospitals charge outrageous prices for inferior care," Woolhandler said in a statement.


    "The for-profits skimp on nurses, but spend lavishly on their executives and paper-pushers."

    Himmelstein pointed to fraud cases involving for-profit health care companies including Columbia/HCA Healthcare Corp. , which was hit by a Medicare scandal in 1997; Tenet Healthcare Corp., which is being investigated for allegedly overbilling Medicare; and HealthSouth , where 15 former executives have pleaded guilty to criminal fraud charges.

    "In health care, crime pays handsomely," Himmelstein commented.
    Emphasis added by me.

    This is yet another piece of evidence that supports the notion that non-profit health care is more efficient and better for patients. I continue to be baffled by the baseless assertions that for-profit hospitals are more efficient and provide a higher quality of care.

    And I'll make a prediction. The same "profit loving" right wingers on these forums will continue to support their incorrect and morally bankrupt ideology about healthcare. The evidence is clear and in excess. The United States needs to join the rest of the civilized world and provide non-profit care to it's people. This isn't even about economics or political ideologies. It's about human life.

    link: http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/06/08...eut/index.html
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    1) it doesn't say government-provided healthcare is better, it says non-profit healthcare is better. There's a difference. You still have to pay for non-profit healthcare, and it doesn't (necessarily) receive government funds. It still survives on its own revenue.

    2) regarding this quote:

    U.S. hospitals owned by investors with the aim of making money are less cost-efficient than nonprofits, Canadian researchers said.


    Cost-efficient in what way?

    Comment


    • #3
      Cost-efficient in what way?
      that means it costs MORE for care that is lower quality
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah, for the user, you mean. Normally, cost-efficiency is from the perspective of the owner...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kucinich
          Ah, for the user, you mean. Normally, cost-efficiency is from the perspective of the owner...
          no, it means for the business... didn't you read how the administrative costs and overhead are higher?
          To us, it is the BEAST.

          Comment


          • #6
            You just said for the customer, at least it seemed like you did.

            Quite obviously, for-profits are more cost-efficient from the point of an investor.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kucinich Quite obviously, for-profits are more cost-efficient from the point of an investor.
              Did you just read the article? or did it pass through your swiss cheese brain?

              read this slowly so you can comprehend, m'kay?

              FOR PROFIT IS LESS COST-EFFECTIVE THAN NON-PROFIT...

              meaning COSTS ARE HIGHER FOR THE SAME (or in this case less quality) CARE

              COST HIGHER = BAD FOR INVESTORS

              To us, it is the BEAST.

              Comment


              • #8


                Sava, don't be an idiot. You understand that the word non-profit has two components, right? "non" and "profit"? As in, they don't get profits? And without profits, it's cost-efficiency is zero from the point of an investor, because there is no return!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kucinich


                  Sava, don't be an idiot. You understand that the word non-profit has two components, right? "non" and "profit"? As in, they don't get profits? And without profits, it's cost-efficiency is zero from the point of an investor, because there is no return!
                  You have no clue what cost-efficiency is.

                  I don't know how else to explain cost-efficiency to you. I tried to in the most simple of manners... but failed. I can only imagine the frustration your teachers go through.
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kucinich


                    Sava, don't be an idiot. You understand that the word non-profit has two components, right? "non" and "profit"? As in, they don't get profits? And without profits, it's cost-efficiency is zero from the point of an investor, because there is no return!
                    You're using the wrong terminology you wingnut.

                    Cost-efficiency is a measure of output over input.

                    Profitability or having a higher return on investment is a measure of (revenue - expenditures) over capital
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Cost-efficiency from the point of the investor is, obviously, how much it costs to get a certain return on investment. It has nothing to do with how much X quality service costs, except insamuch as that effects profits. Since non-profit hospitals obviously DON'T have profits...

                      EDIT: re Sava

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                        You're using the wrong terminology you wingnut.

                        Cost-efficiency is a measure of output over input.
                        Which can be return over investment...

                        I can say "oh, such and such is not cost-efficient" and mean that it's not economically viable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Cost efficiency for an electrical company would be number of kilowatt hours delivered divided by what they spent in dollars.

                          Profitability would be what they charged minus what they spent and all divided by the value of their capital (if you want an attraction level for an investor)

                          Just because a business is profitable does not mean it is efficient. Just because it is efficient does not mean it is profitable.
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kucinich


                            Which can be return over investment...

                            I can say "oh, such and such is not cost-efficient" and mean that it's not economically viable.
                            You could if you wanted to use the term in a completely different way than the rest of the English-speaking world.

                            Cost efficiency has nothing to do with how much you took in in revenues.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Cost efficiency for an electrical company would be number of kilowatt hours delivered divided by what they spent in dollars.


                              That's cost-efficiency for a customer - kilowatt-hours delivered divided by what they paid in dollars.

                              Comment

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