african american whaaaaa??????

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Why should someone born and bread in America identify as Italian?

They don't identify as Italian. They identify as Italian-American.

[Al B. Sure!]

chegitz does not want Martin Luther King's dream to come true

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I call people whatever they want to be called, because I don't believe that I have any right to infringe upon anyone's identity.

Then why don't you just let it go with that? What is so ****ing hard with respecting peoples' self-identity?

However, I still believe the term African-American, as well as all the other -American terms, to be foolish, and I'll tell you why.

I don't really care.

Unfortunately, their creation of a single identity detracts from the identity of America as a whole,

This is the essence of your objection. What it comes down to is, opressed groups are always belamed for their oppression. "African-Americans are treated differently because they call themselves a African-American." Okay, and why were they treated differently before the 1980s? Do you think racism just vanished?

In part, the call for the abolition of various hyphen-Americans is a call for the abolition of those groups. There should be no African-Americans. There should be no Irish-Americans. We should all watch the same tv shows, eat the same food, dress the same way, and listen to the same music. People should feel no connection to anywhere but the United States. People should feel no connection to others with similar cultural backrounds.

Why can't you look upon our differences as a strength, that what makes America great is that there are so many different kinds of Americans?

What if we don't want to be like you? What if we think your culture sucks? That you're boring? Why can't you respect our right to be different? Why does our difference scare you? Why does it offend you? Why should we be forced to be like you in order for you to respect us? Why do you need to make us just like you? Why do you need to ethnically cleanse us?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
chegitz does not want Martin Luther King's dream to come true

MLKs dream was that Black people would be respected for who they are, not that they would be able to become white.

[Al B. Sure!]

chegitz, what if you and bunnygrl had a child? what would he be in this hyphenation world? or even more extreme, what would my child in my example be called?

it's not about becoming white. it's about transcending race.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


They don't identify as Italian. They identify as Italian-American.

Well, putting in an "Italian" in one's self-designation certainly sounds like one identify with Italy. But, if I'm to believe you, Italian-Americans do not consider themselves any more connected to Italy than do, say, Hiberno-Americans?

[Al B. Sure!]

chegitz, i'll repost this in response to your saying that getting rid of African-American is a destruction of culture.

and it can not be stressed enough how 'black culture' was born 400 hundred years ago and grew in america far seperated from africa. that there is an american culture seperate from english can not be doubted but there are similiarities because americans weren't forced to disavow all old ties to england and were able to have continued contact with england. Blacks had no such luxuries and were forced to create a new culture of their own here in America.

granted, during the 20th century, particularily post-Garvy, there has been a small movement of Blacks attempting to re-connect with Africa but this is an incredibly small movement that hasn't re-connected much. they may study african art, culture, and music and create organizations with high flung named like "African Liberation Association" or god knows what but they remain an outlier group of the black consciousness.

Black is a different culture than African. It was born when the Portuguese ripped it from its African mother during the brutal diaspora/slavery. Black is a purely American ethnicity, seperate from the cultures of Africa.

The phrase Black Americans or Blacks represents Black culture as distinct from Africa (and reminds people that Blacks were torn from Africa) better than African-American does which has jolly conuntations of immigration and a long-standing connection with the continent. i wouldnt think that you, chegitz, would be in favour of this new subtle oppression and renunciation of a horrible past that goes by the name African-American

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
it's not about becoming white. it's about transcending race.

What's wrong with race that it needs to be transcended. Why can't we appreciate each other for what we are, instead of pretending differences don't exist. Is there something wrong with being Black that we have to pretend people aren't Black?

As for what my children would be, they will be Chinese-American, as we're adopting. If we had biological offrsping, however, they would be African-Irish-Italian-Americans, a blend and each. We have a mixed friend who consideres herself both Black and a German-American.

Why do you assume that people have set self-identies, that idenity is exclusive. I'm Irish-American as much as I'm Italian-American. Recognizing and celebrating and connecting with the diversity of my ancestry doesn't make me strange. It just makes me an American.

[Al B. Sure!]

and what would your biological children be called?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Well, putting in an "Italian" in one's self-designation certainly sounds like one identify with Italy. But, if I'm to believe you, Italian-Americans do not consider themselves any more connected to Italy than do, say, Hiberno-Americans?

No, Italian-Americans do feel a connection to Italy, some stronger than others. But we aren't Italians. We're Americans of Italian decent. It's just a hell of a lot easier writing Italian-American than Americans whose ancestors come from Italy and who still feel a connection to that country. Why is it so hard to understand feeling a connection to the land of your ancestors and a shared connection with others who have similar backgrounds?

In the phrase, Italian-American, the important part is American. We are Americans. But we're a little different from other Americans. We like those differences. There's nothing wrong with those differences. But some people take great offense to us not wanting to be REAL(tm)-Americans, what ever the **** that is. I thought I was a real American. I guess not.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
and what would your biological children be called?

Whatever they ask to be called, I'd hope. Unfortunately, they will also probably be called ******s.

[Al B. Sure!]

chegitz:

Whatever they ask to be called, I'd hope. Unfortunately, they will also probably be called ******s.

nah... i mean some black people would call them niggas but some (stupid) black people would call them crackers though.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So the two terms go together to make African American, meaning someone who is living in the USA but of native-african decent.

Morroccans are native Africans .

Why can't you look upon our differences as a strength, that what makes America great is that there are so many different kinds of Americans?

What if we don't want to be like you? What if we think your culture sucks? That you're boring? Why can't you respect our right to be different? Why does our difference scare you? Why does it offend you? Why should we be forced to be like you in order for you to respect us? Why do you need to make us just like you? Why do you need to ethnically cleanse us?

My lord are you the king of hyperbole. He never said to get rid of cultural differences, but to get rid of these hypenated terms to refer to people and say we are all Americans and we have cultural differences but we are the same people. It's a noble goal. Now we have self-segregation and the hypenated Americans, I think, are indicative of that.

Though I must say I love how you throw around words like rascist and ethnic cleansing... you wonder why people roll their eyes at you and don't listen. Perhaps Speer was wrong to call you a racist, but maybe some of it is true, not in the way he intended, but in other ways.

[Al B. Sure!]

and chegitz, African-American doesnt seem like a glossing over of the past to you? There is no such thing as an African-American identity. There is an African (really a million cultures) identity and a seperate Black identity. African-American is some bull**** that concocts a false cheerful union between the two.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Black is a different culture than African.

What's your point?

A) There is no "African" culture per se.

B) Black culture did not spring fully formed like Athene from the head of Zeus. Black culture grew out of a synthesis of many African cultures plus the culture of the American South. It is distinct, but it has ties to both lands. Despite your argument that modern attraction to Africa stems from the Garveyite movement, certain cultural forms which have been present in America from the beginning are recognized as being African in origin.

Hip-hop has African roots, however American it may be. There are similar hair styles on both sides of the Atlantic. Speech pattersn and language cadence share similarities. There are culinary similarities (yams for example).

The fact that Black peoples' connections to Africa was heavily disrupted and cut off does not mean that they don't still carry small bits of Africa with them today.