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Re: Re: Re: Re: Being a Communist
Actually, he would be wrong on several major points.
First, after a few years the Reds were left to their own devices in the USSR. Che tends to like to throw up the bogey man of Capitalist-Imperialist intervention, but that was over by the early 20's. Thereafter, Stalin and the party were left alone to build a hell-on-Earth all on their lonesome.
Next he'll mention the Cold War, but maybe I could point out that that 'war' did not begin until the Soviets throttled the independence of the people of Eastern Europe when they changed liberation into conquest and occupation. Thus, after leaving well enough alone for 15 years before WW2 capitalist democracies were more than willing to continue to leave the reds alone... until it was the Soviets who made it clear what was at stake through their heavy handed reliance on the Red Army to force revolution on others.
Brutal and no-holds barred? Freekin' right! The educated, the middle classes, and many others who lived in the West would have received no mercy had the tides of change gone the other way. Crying about losing a struggle communists themselves began seems a bit... lame, to me.
On the topic of social change being driven home he is partially correct. However, he is dead wrong that no social progress was made before Marx breathed life into the socialist movement with his mythical tales of fantastic worlds. However, that is not really the point since I will grant that more was done quickly once the left established itself.
What is the point is that the best aspects of socialism are now adopted by non-communists from other parts of the left and their better ideas can be put into practice through the ballot box. Communism through revolution alone retains the distinction of seeking to extinguish liberty on the alter of equality.
It is then little wonder that the attraction of your cause is limited to a few malcontents and a greater number of rebellious youth. In short, communism today occupies a similar prospect for success as monarchists enjoy. Wake up! The day is done, the race has been run.
As far as French work weeks and German holidays are concerned, I will not comment on what I do not know. As far as Canadian healthcare is concerned though, he is full of beans. Canada spends more per person and gets less results than most other Western countries. We have a 100% public system for core services which is overbloated and inefficient. We are the only Western country to seek to prohibit a private system from enhancing a public one. I don't know about you, but I think it may be time that we take a lesson or two from those capitalist bastards of Western Europe, like France, The Netherlands, and Sweden.
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes they did, and the capitalist engaged in a brutal, no-holds, barred, kicking, biting, nail-gouging fight to oppose them. So instead of being able to build a better society, they had to build a society oriented around defending themselves. A society like that has no future.
Only because we forced it upon you. Without the threat of red revolution, without communists fighting in the factories and streets of the various industrialized countries, there would be no welfare, no minimum wage, no socialized medicine. Everything that makes life in the West not life in in a Third World ****-hole sweatshop is due to us.
The capitalists are on the offensive, taking back the promises of the social welfare state. In Canada, the capitalists are sabotaging the health care system, so that you won't want to use it anymore and will turn to private alternatives. In France, they want to expand the work week. In Germany, they want to trim their vacations. Without us fighting to hold on, you won't get to keep them. Sure, you say you'd never let it happen, but after a few decades of Rupert Mudoch telling you otherwise and the government refusing to fund your services, you'll agree to let it happen. Even if you just want a more humane capitalism, you still need us.
Originally posted by notyoueither
Your predecessors have already changed the world.
Your predecessors have already changed the world.
Yes they did, and the capitalist engaged in a brutal, no-holds, barred, kicking, biting, nail-gouging fight to oppose them. So instead of being able to build a better society, they had to build a society oriented around defending themselves. A society like that has no future.
However the best parts of your message have been subsumed by other systems (socialism and capitalist, liberal democracies).
Only because we forced it upon you. Without the threat of red revolution, without communists fighting in the factories and streets of the various industrialized countries, there would be no welfare, no minimum wage, no socialized medicine. Everything that makes life in the West not life in in a Third World ****-hole sweatshop is due to us.
What is left to distinguish yours from other offerings available is a future devoid of choice for individuals on how to organise their affairs.
The capitalists are on the offensive, taking back the promises of the social welfare state. In Canada, the capitalists are sabotaging the health care system, so that you won't want to use it anymore and will turn to private alternatives. In France, they want to expand the work week. In Germany, they want to trim their vacations. Without us fighting to hold on, you won't get to keep them. Sure, you say you'd never let it happen, but after a few decades of Rupert Mudoch telling you otherwise and the government refusing to fund your services, you'll agree to let it happen. Even if you just want a more humane capitalism, you still need us.
Originally posted by Agathon
Che is right.
Che is right.
First, after a few years the Reds were left to their own devices in the USSR. Che tends to like to throw up the bogey man of Capitalist-Imperialist intervention, but that was over by the early 20's. Thereafter, Stalin and the party were left alone to build a hell-on-Earth all on their lonesome.
Next he'll mention the Cold War, but maybe I could point out that that 'war' did not begin until the Soviets throttled the independence of the people of Eastern Europe when they changed liberation into conquest and occupation. Thus, after leaving well enough alone for 15 years before WW2 capitalist democracies were more than willing to continue to leave the reds alone... until it was the Soviets who made it clear what was at stake through their heavy handed reliance on the Red Army to force revolution on others.
Brutal and no-holds barred? Freekin' right! The educated, the middle classes, and many others who lived in the West would have received no mercy had the tides of change gone the other way. Crying about losing a struggle communists themselves began seems a bit... lame, to me.
On the topic of social change being driven home he is partially correct. However, he is dead wrong that no social progress was made before Marx breathed life into the socialist movement with his mythical tales of fantastic worlds. However, that is not really the point since I will grant that more was done quickly once the left established itself.
What is the point is that the best aspects of socialism are now adopted by non-communists from other parts of the left and their better ideas can be put into practice through the ballot box. Communism through revolution alone retains the distinction of seeking to extinguish liberty on the alter of equality.
It is then little wonder that the attraction of your cause is limited to a few malcontents and a greater number of rebellious youth. In short, communism today occupies a similar prospect for success as monarchists enjoy. Wake up! The day is done, the race has been run.
As far as French work weeks and German holidays are concerned, I will not comment on what I do not know. As far as Canadian healthcare is concerned though, he is full of beans. Canada spends more per person and gets less results than most other Western countries. We have a 100% public system for core services which is overbloated and inefficient. We are the only Western country to seek to prohibit a private system from enhancing a public one. I don't know about you, but I think it may be time that we take a lesson or two from those capitalist bastards of Western Europe, like France, The Netherlands, and Sweden.
.
What makes you think that we live a pitiful existence?
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