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As we knew all along... Missile Shield is a boondoggle

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  • As we knew all along... Missile Shield is a boondoggle

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    U.S. Missile Shield Won't Work: Scientist Group

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The multibillion-dollar U.S. ballistic missile shield due to start operating by Sept. 30 appears incapable of shooting down any incoming warheads, an independent scientists' group said on Thursday.

    A technical analysis found "no basis for believing the system will have any capability to defend against a real attack," the Union of Concerned Scientists said in a 76-page report titled Technical Realities.

    The Pentagon (news - web sites)'s Missile Defense Agency rejected the report.

    "It will provide a defense against incoming missiles for the first time in this country's history," said Richard Lehner, an agency spokesman.

    The Pentagon's initial deployment involves 10 interceptor missiles in silos in Alaska and California. It is designed to protect all 50 U.S. states against a limited strike from North Korean missiles that could be tipped with nuclear, chemical or biological warheads.

    Boeing Co. is assembling the shield, which would use the interceptors to launch "kill vehicles" meant to pulverize targets in the mid-course of their flight paths, outside the Earth's atmosphere. Using infrared sensors, the vehicles would search the chill of space for the warheads. So far, the interceptors have scored hits five times in eight highly controlled tests.

    The Missile Defense Agency "appears to be picking numbers out of thin air," the report said of past Pentagon assertions of a high probability of shooting down targets.

    "There is no data to justify such an assumption," added the scientists' group, which is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Its findings dovetailed with an audit last month by Congress's General Accounting Office (news - web sites) that said the system's effectiveness would be "largely unproven" when the initial capability goes on alert.

    DANGEROUS POLICY IMPLICATIONS

    Even unsophisticated countermeasures that could be mounted by countries such as North Korea (news - web sites) remain an unsolved problem for midcourse defenses against long-range missiles, the scientists' report said.

    Balloon decoys could be given the same infrared signature as a warhead by painting their surfaces, it said. The project could also be confused by sealing the warhead in a large balloon so the kill vehicle could not determine its exact location or tethering several balloons to it.

    Overstating the defensive capabilities of the ground-based defense is dangerous, the group said.

    "If the president is told that the system could reliably defend against a North Korean ballistic missile attack, he might be willing to accept more risks when making policy and military decisions," the report said.

    "All indications are that it would not work," added Lisbeth Gronlund, a physicist who is a co-author of the report and co-director of the group's global security program.

    "And the administration's statements that it will be highly effective are irresponsible nonsense," she added in a telephone interview.

    Overall, the Pentagon estimates it will need $53 billion in the next five years to develop, field and upgrade a multilayered shield also involving systems based at sea, aboard modified Boeing 747 aircraft and in space.
    Of all the wastes of my money, this has to rank up there as the most infuriating. The Pentagon has its fingers in its ears and is just going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

    $53 billion could be spent on some things that are actually, you know, useful. And that actually work.
    Tutto nel mondo è burla

  • #2
    $53 billion is a pittance compared to the amount that's wasted on other things. Not that that excuses this of course.
    ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
    ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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    • #3
      I wonder if the ancestors of these scientists were the ones that said a rocket to the moon won't work.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        I wonder if the ancestors of these scientists were the ones that said a rocket to the moon won't work.
        And their ancestors were the ones saying modern science has discovered all that it can discover.

        By the by every black helicopter conspiricist knows moon landings were fraud. We're at 'poly 'member.
        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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        • #5
          A missile shield will eventually work. There is no honesty regarding the amount of time and money that is required to meet the requirements.

          It's the equivalent of the Wright Brothers designating their first airplane as the US AIR FORCE. Technically correct, in reality, not quite there.
          Haven't been here for ages....

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          • #6
            And the patent office of the 1800's that stated all worth-while discoveries had been made.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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            • #7
              I wonder if anyone has considered that an offensive technology (Because that's what it is) only serves to encourage nuclear arms races.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #8
                Depends on if the systems works or not.
                Blah

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: As we knew all along... Missile Shield is a boondoggle

                  Originally posted by Boris Godunov
                  Of all the wastes of my money, this has to rank up there as the most infuriating. The Pentagon has its fingers in its ears and is just going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
                  Protecting this country from a nuclear attack is not a waste of money!

                  I am amazed that some people (mostly form the Left) seem to want this country to be defenseless. You want NK to nuke us?

                  Isn't some defense better than none at all?
                  'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                  G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

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                  • #10
                    Re: Re: As we knew all along... Missile Shield is a boondoggle

                    Originally posted by The diplomat


                    Protecting this country from a nuclear attack is not a waste of money!

                    I am amazed that some people (mostly form the Left) seem to want this country to be defenseless. You want NK to nuke us?

                    Isn't some defense better than none at all?
                    If there's nukes flying through the air, nothing really matters anymore.
                    Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                    Do It Ourselves

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DinoDoc
                      I wonder if anyone has considered that an offensive technology (Because that's what it is) only serves to encourage nuclear arms races.

                      MAD requires rationale parties to be effective. The underlying assumption is that rationality is in short supply.
                      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Re: As we knew all along... Missile Shield is a boondoggle

                        Originally posted by The diplomat


                        Protecting this country from a nuclear attack is not a waste of money!

                        I am amazed that some people (mostly form the Left) seem to want this country to be defenseless. You want NK to nuke us?

                        Isn't some defense better than none at all?
                        Did you read at all, or are you just stupid? IT DOESN'T WORK.

                        If it doesn't work, it's a WASTE OF MONEY.

                        It's supposed to begin implementation Sept. 30. This isn't some far off, future date. It's this year, and the thing has ZERO ability to do what it is supposed to do.

                        How is something that DOESN'T WORK prevent NK from nuking us?
                        Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                        • #13
                          Boris has the GAUL to question our MISSILE DEFNSE OMG U TRAITOR!~

                          Boris... prepare to be ASSINATED!!
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

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                          • #14
                            I wonder if anyone has considered that an offensive technology (Because that's what it is) only serves to encourage nuclear arms races.
                            That's the downside, but let's go through how realistic that is. I don't think we are building enough assets to defend against the bigger arsenals out there. Russia could overload even an enormous system. China might have to up the number of missiles, but not by much. They know this system isn't aimed at them, and even if it were, they could easily overcome it.

                            The upside is that potential nuclear states will see that it's no longer enough to make one or two nukes to be a nuclear power. Building and maintaining more than a handful of nukes is very expensive and has a large signature (easier for our intelligence to pick up). We're simply attempting to raise some reasonable barriers to entry into the nuke club.

                            Even if the missile defense doesn't work 100%, then the barriers to entry will be raised. In the future, it might indeed work 100%, so a country is going to have to factor that into its trade-off of nukes vs. no nukes.

                            Edit: One of the positives of a modest missile defense system is that we can be more proactive in helping people out on civil nuclear electricity, since there would be a bigger margin of safety. Right now, we have to sort of say that we aren't going to fulfill the spirit of the Nonproliferation Treaty. So the carrot of the NPT is enhanced considerably.
                            Last edited by DanS; May 13, 2004, 12:58.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sava
                              Boris has the GAUL
                              Attached Files
                              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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