Americans bring enlightenment and progress to Iraq

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Evil Knevil


Because of course we're morally superior to them all.

well, we are morally superior to the radical islamist. If we aren't, then what are we fighting for?

[Drake Tungsten]

well, we are morally superior to the radical islamist. If we aren't, then what are we fighting for?

Oil.

[GePap]

Originally posted by The diplomat


well, we are morally superior to the radical islamist. If we aren't, then what are we fighting for?

Bodily security.

Now, if you can show the mayority of the insurgents in Fallujah are Islamic Militants, the comment was to Yeff's basic anti-Arab rantings.

[lord of the mark]

From Jihad Unspun, An anti-US website

Mafkarat al-Islam’s correspondent reports that Iraqi Resistance fighters in al-Fallujah arrested 20 American agent Iraqis who had snuck into al-Falluja along with returning families in the hopes of facilitating an American assault on the besieged city. With the help of the local people, however, the Resistance forces were able to expose and arrest the would-be saboteurs. The agents underwent interrogation in the last few days and they confessed to various crimes. Their confessions were recorded and they were all executed.

One of the American agents was a female physician from Baghdad who had been sent by the puppet so-called ministry of health, ostensibly to help local doctors treat the wounded. But the local people grew suspicious of her because of her intentionally bad work. She was investigated for two days and finally confessed to her crime and revealed the outlines of the enemy plan to battle the Resistance from within. Accounts were settled with her as with the other spies

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
The US occupation in Iraq is NOT the French occupation in Algeria.

And this is what I wanted to believe, until recently. The rebellion is changing it, and the American forces are changing their dealings with the population, at least in the pockets of resistance, or the potential ones.

When there was isolated pressure from Saddam loyalists and foreign fighters, things were very different from this time, where nationalist and anti-occupation feelings are even gaining the Shi'ites, where the resistance to the US is becoming a nationalist one rather than a Saddamite one. And where pockets are in outright violent rebellion.

Today's situation is completely different than yesterday's. And I strongly doubt your boys and your generals were prepared to it when the war started. I don't think they are prepared to it now either.

[DAVOUT]

Ecchymoses on legs and thorax hardly support a case for tortures. And the lack of details could mean that the victims were Iracki *traitors* badly treated by insurgents then killed.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

And this is what I wanted to believe, until recently. The rebellion is changing it, and the American forces are changing their dealings with the population, at least in the pockets of resistance, or the potential ones.

When there was isolated pressure from Saddam loyalists and foreign fighters, things were very different from this time, where nationalist and anti-occupation feelings are even gaining the Shi'ites, where the resistance to the US is becoming a nationalist one rather than a Saddamite one. And where pockets are in outright violent rebellion.

Today's situation is completely different than yesterday's. And I strongly doubt your boys and your generals were prepared to it when the war started. I don't think they are prepared to it now either.

The US forces expected an urban battle in Baghdad, in April 2003. The surprise was that the Fedayeen Saddam faded away, and that battle did not take place. Our boys and generals have trained extensively for urban warfare, the USMC especially, IIUC. Whats happening in Fallujah is very much what they expected at SOME point, and what they are trained for.

There will still be civilian casualties. It has NOT proven possible to evacuate the entire civilian population, and the last insurgent redoubts are in the most densely populated parts of the city. GEpap cites 600 civilian dead. I saw a citation from the Iraqi ministry of health of half that - the higher number was from a local physician. Thats still a tragedy. But its NOT incompatible with the USMC making greater efforts to avoid civilian deaths than any army fighting in urban coniditions in history. The coalition forces have repeatedly accepted ceasefires, and allowed Iraqis a chance to negotiate, to avoid having to fight in Fallujah. The insurgents have repeatedly violated the ceasefires. I hope that Fallujah will be resolved without further fighting, but if that is impossible, i rely on the USMC to fight with honor.

[Yef]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
From Jihad Unspun, An anti-US website


"One of the American agents was a female physician from Baghdad who had been sent by the puppet so-called ministry of health, ostensibly to help local doctors treat the wounded. But the local people grew suspicious of her because of her intentionally bad work. She was investigated for two days and finally confessed to her crime and revealed the outlines of the enemy plan to battle the Resistance from within. Accounts were settled with her as with the other spies."

Poor woman. I don't want to think of all the things they did to her before killing her.

[lord of the mark]

Heres an article about the Marines in iraq, and interrogation techniques

http://1775.marinecorps.com/

[Chemical Ollie]

Written for Aftonbladet by Urban Hamid. Translated by me.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,469668,00.html

The images that cause outrage

USA’s ferocious attacks strenghtens resistance.


Bagdhad
USA’s ferocious attacks on the slum quarters of Falluja last night will not quell the resistance. Quite the reverse. Now, thousands of Iraqis will get a personal motive to seek revenge on the occupation forces. The Americans say that they mainly strike against foreign terrorists in Falluja. But there aren’t simply that number of foreigners in town. When I was there myself, I saw large numbers of armed men. Most of them were known by the inhabitants and came from the area. It’s their friends and relatives who now die in the American attacks. Bagdhad inhabitants are chocked over the brutality of the attacks.
- This has gone too far, this war is unhumane, said several people I have spoken to.

The TV images that are pumped by the Arabic channels can be seen everywhere. They inflict outrage in people who would normally not care at all. Not only Iraqis, but all Arabs can see – more or less live – how their muslim brothers are killed by the occupation forces. They see the images and make their own conclusions on who are really the terrorists. Many people tend to forget how proud Iraqis are. The resistance is not about getting Saddam back. It’s all about – resistance.

Additionaly, the rivalising Sunni and Shia Muslim factions are beginning to unite. Falluja, that is subject to ferocious American attacks, is dominated by Sunni. Meanwhile, when the bombs started to fall over Falluja, 60 Shias who fell victim to the fighting in Najaf were buried.

When I was kidnapped outside Falluja on the 8th of April, I tried to give a cigarette lighter with a picture of Saddam to one of the kidnappers. He was outraged.
- Do you think I support Saddam? I don’t want your lighter. We are all against Saddam. We want the Americans gone.
The Iraqis have seen how Palestinians live under the Israeli occupation. The are frightened to end up in the same situation. A shejk I talked with today said:
- The Americans did not come to liberate us from Saddam. They came to steal our oil and support the slaughter of our Palestinian brothers.
The attacks on Falluja will hardly make him or other Iraqis to change their minds.

Urban Hamid
Published 28 April 2004

[East Street Trader]

It is truly hard to know for whom to feel the most sympathy.

The US and UK soldiers, asked to do such difficult and sometimes horrid things and to risk their lives far from home; the civilian population whose homes have become a battle field; or the insurgents - for who can hold it against a proud man to resist those who invade his country - trying to stand up to such a formidable enemy.

The world stands in dire need of some one to whom all of us would pay attention. A Ghandi or Mandela or someone. Even a Lawrence or a Gordon might get the combatants to consider the notion that nothing compels them to be enemies.

But I suppose it may have to be action or inaction on the part of lots of much humbler folk; or just the passage of a whole lot of time which starts to sort this all out.

I really hope the world's leaders - and the people of the USA - are going off the idea of ever getting into this again. Invasions are just altogether too foul.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by East Street Trader
- for who can hold it against a proud man to resist those who invade his country - trying to stand up to such a formidable enemy.

The meathod with which they prosecute thier resistence precludes the possibility of me feeling anything but contempt for them.

As for the choices you laid out, it's a tie between the US/UK soldiers and the innocent civilians.

[East Street Trader]

If your country is ever invaded DinoDoc, and you have the courage to resist, you will have my respect. If those you resist outgun you - as they inevitably will - and you try to resist as these men are by attempting to go toe to toe with the invader, you will also get my sympathy.

[Spiffor]

Well, his beloved Mississipi is occupied by Americans for centuries now, but this pansie won't take up the arms

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

are you familiar with the propaganda campaign related to Jenin? thousands of civilians, killed. Until it was found that only dozens of civilians were killed.

The campaign must have been unsuccesful, because I sincerely never heard of anything like thousands of deaths at Jenin.