Terrorist Victory In Spain

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
and fez, it's transitive. so by that logic, you also support putin and stalin.

Putin's not a bad guy. He's pretty decent. He has to run a country somehow... if it includes drugging a presidental candidate and taking him to Ukraine then so be it.

Stalin's a commie. He's bad.

[Q Classic]

if stalin wasn't a commie, but a capitalist, and ran his country the way he did, how would your opinion change?

[joncha]

Well, I'm fresh out of Putin pics, so I'll post this one (on topic!) instead. Was Bill Murray's character in Groundhog Day a terrorist for abducting Punxsutawney Phil? Was his victory at the end of the film a victory for terrorism?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
if stalin wasn't a commie, but a capitalist, and ran his country the way he did, how would your opinion change?

He wouldn't of been a bad guy.

[Q Classic]

glad i could pry that out of ya, fezzie.

[joncha]

So, Fez, your opinion, then--just so I get this straight--is that except for the whole communism thing, Stalin was not such a bad guy?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by joncha
So, Fez, your opinion, then--just so I get this straight--is that except for the whole communism thing, Stalin was not such a bad guy?

Yeah.

[Sikander]

Fezzed.

[BeBMan]

I claim victory in this thread.

[Harovan]

You terrorist!

[BeBMan]

You got me here

[Harovan]

Expect Berlin to be bombed with Bavarian Beer and Brez'n. If we're in good mood, we'll throw Stoiber out of the bombers too. Or were it helicopters?

[notyoueither]

Definitely has to be helicopters.

[Drake Tungsten]

First Robert Kagan and now Tom Friedman are in agreement with me. Who do all you lefties have backing up your crack-pot ideas? Better get over to Indymedia, pronto...

Axis of Appeasement
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Published: March 18, 2004

The new Spanish government's decision to respond to the attack by Al Qaeda by going ahead with plans to pull its troops from Iraq constitutes the most dangerous moment we've faced since 9/11. It's what happens when the Axis of Evil intersects with the Axis of Appeasement and the Axis of Incompetence.

Let's start with the Axis of Evil. We are up against a terrible nihilistic enemy. Think about what the Islamist terrorists are doing: they are trying to kill as many people in Iraq and elsewhere as possible so the U.S. fails in Iraq, so Iraq collapses into civil war, so even a glimmer of democracy never takes root in the Arab world and so America is weakened.

But if they are so bad, why aren't we doing better? It has to do with the pigheadedness of the Bush team and the softheadedness of many allies. Regarding the Bush team, let me say yet again: We do not have enough troops in Iraq, and we never did. From the outset, the Bush Pentagon has treated Iraq as a lab test to prove that it can win a war with a small, mobile high-tech Army. Well, maybe you can defeat Saddam that way, but you can't build a new Iraq — and control its borders to prevent foreign terrorists from coming in — with so few troops, especially when you disband the Iraqi Army on top of it.

Don't tell me we have enough troops in Iraq when our soldiers are getting picked off daily by roadside bombs, when our aid workers are getting murdered and when Iraqis are getting massacred by suicide missions. Don't tell me we are not fighting this war on the cheap when our diplomats in Baghdad don't have enough armored cars, cellphones, bulletproof vests or escort troops to protect them as they try to travel around the country. We are now paying for the contradiction between Mr. Bush's two great projects: his war on taxes and his war on terrorism.

Yes, we can still win this, but right now, despite Paul Bremer's heroic success in helping Iraqis forge a progressive interim constitution, we can still lose it. If we do, it will be largely due to the Pentagon's inability to secure Iraq, which has encouraged Iraqis to turn to sectarian militias for security, undermining nation-building and planting the seeds of civil war. Second, it will be because we have so few real allies. As Spain proves, we had a few friendly governments, but most people in Europe and Asia have never been with the Bush team — especially when it continues to insist that we are going to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to justify the war. It's time for the Bush team to admit it was wrong about this and move on.

Unless President Bush dispenses with his discredited argument for the war — W.M.D. — no one will hear or listen to what I believe was always the only right argument for the war and is now the only rationale left: to depose the genocidal Saddam regime in order to partner with the Iraqi people to build a decent government in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world — because it is the pathologies and humiliations produced by Arab misgovernance that are the root causes of terrorism and Muslim extremism.

Spain is planning to do something crazy: to try to appease radical evil by pulling Spain's troops out of Iraq — even though those troops are now supporting the first democracy-building project ever in the Arab world.

I understand that many Spanish voters felt lied to by their rightist government over who was responsible for the Madrid bombings, and therefore voted it out of office. But they should now follow that up by vowing to keep their troops in Iraq — to make clear that in cleaning up their own democracy, they do not want to subvert the Iraqis' attempt to build one of their own. Otherwise, the Spanish vote will not be remembered as an act of cleansing, but of appeasement.

My dream is that the U.S., Britain, France, Germany and Spain announce tomorrow that in response to the Madrid bombing, they are sending a new joint force of 5,000 troops to Iraq for the sole purpose of protecting the U.N.'s return to Baghdad to oversee Iraq's first democratic election.

The notion that Spain can separate itself from Al Qaeda's onslaught on Western civilization by pulling its troops from Iraq is a fantasy. Bin Laden has said that Spain was once Muslim and he wants it restored that way. As a friend in Cairo e-mailed me, a Spanish pullout from Iraq would only bring to mind Churchill's remark after Chamberlain returned from signing the Munich pact with Hitler: "You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/18/opinion/18FRIE.html

[BeBMan]

Let's hope the US does not try to appease NKorea.....