"If this does not qualify for the death sentence, then there is no case that would''

[Space05us]

The man needs to be locked in a mental home.

I dont know if its been said yet in this thread but if he was found guilty by reason of mental defect (insane) he would be sent to a mental hospital. And as soon as his doctor deemed him sane again he'd be back on the street. There's no such thing as an insane asylum anymore, they're "inhumane" or some bs like that.

I think he should either be given 9 life sentences without possibility for parole or the death penelty. Even if he pleads insane, if you cant control yourself enough to stop yourself from killing you dont belong in society.

[Space05us]

That sounds too simple. People who upload music on the internet while ignorant of the illegality are not legally insane as far as I know.

ignorance of the law is no excuse
if you dont see the 45mph sign and go 60 you get a ticket, there is no "oops, I didnt see it"

Its not that you have to be unaware of the legality of your actions, but that you have to be out of control of you body. The insanity defence is confusing, and that confusion is the reason why you can get off on insanity even if you perfectly sane at the time of the crime. You only have to convince a jury, you dont have to be right.

[Tattila the Hun]

Put him trough a nuclear reactor without shielding, then to prison without any healthcare.

Cruel? Yup.
Effective? Dunno.
Fair? Absofrigginlutely.

I mean, death is just... death. It's too humane for the likes of his.
Make them suffer. And by suffering, I don't mean no color tv, and no XBox for you. Put him inna hellhole someplace, where, with any luck, he'll spend the rest of his sickness-ridden, yet very, very long life. Life in prison should be life in prison, not 20 years. Forced labour, chaingangs. Human guinea pigs for pharmaseutical companies.

"See this, you would serial killer. This is you in 50 years. Not a pretty sight."

Jeez... He'll propably be fined or something...

[Sava]

deterence doesn't work... torture or DP would be a punishment... not a deterence...

[Space05us]

I mean, death is just... death. It's too humane for the likes of his.
Make them suffer. And by suffering, I don't mean no color tv, and no XBox for you. Put him inna hellhole someplace, where, with any luck, he'll spend the rest of his sickness-ridden, yet very, very long life. Life in prison should be life in prison, not 20 years. Forced labour, chaingangs. Human guinea pigs for pharmaseutical companies.

I can understand killing someone for thier crimes but physical torture is too much. How would you feel if you were found guilty of a murder you didnt commit and then were tortured for it? Maybe they'd slowly castrate you and then pull out your teeth and finger nails one by one as slow as possible and then an hour later they find new evidence and it turns out you're innocent. Then what?

[Aeson]

I am for the DP if it is voluntary. If not, throw away the key. The only case I see for the DP against the will of the criminal is cost cutting, and I definitely don't want our government killing people to cut costs.

[Aeson]

Maybe they'd slowly castrate you and then pull out your teeth and finger nails one by one as slow as possible and then an hour later they find new evidence and it turns out you're innocent. Then what?

An irreversable mistake... just like if you had killed them outright.

[Mr. Harley]

jimmytrick, you miss the point about the DNA evidence.

Also, many have taken the position that there should be a moratorium on the death penalty because DNA testing has proven that the innocent have been convicted. This is actually a reason to continue the use of the death penalty, as it demonstrates that a smaller percentage of the innocent will be convicted in the future.

The systemic problems in the judicial system of the United States have NOT been dealt with. DNA testing is not a fix, it's the canary in the mine indicating something is profoundly wrong. That is why I talked about prosecutorial accountability. What they can do, and then excuse it simply as a mistake, is frightening.

Read about the various "satanic - child abuse - cult" hysteria cases in the 1980's and 1990's. Read about the Demjanjuk case (Google it) and discover how this man spent almost a decade on death row in Israel because a US prosecutor DELIBERATELY withheld new evidence that came to light when the case was being finalized PROVING he couldn't be that man. Since my wife works with children, I've told her that if a prosecuting attorney ever decided that she was a child molestor (she's not, for any jerks who might want to make snide remarks), by the time we proved her innocence, if we were lucky, even with malpractice insurance, we would be bankrupt.

The system is broken. Nobody wants to fix it, and nobody wants to examine the issue of the best justice money can buy - usually in favor of the state, by the way, though it can favor the individual who is wealthy enough. I'm NOT saying that the guilty don't get convicted, nor that the innocent don't go free. But there are sufficient cases that do NOT end up that way that I, for one, do not have any desire to be on the receiving end of the attention of a prosecuting attorney "accidentally".

Until the systemic and procedural issues that let these miscarraiges of justice occur are dealt with, I will be opposed to the death penalty. Yes, genetic evidence gives me a better chance if the system "oopses" and comes after me (since I am a largely law-abiding citizen - largely since I will go slightly over the speed limit). I still have seen people ground up, and lose several years of their lives, fighting to prove their innocence in prosecutions that never should have been brought.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As for the death penalty the deterence argument has been pretty much done to death (forgive the unintended pun) - and the lack of any statistical evidence that anyone ever has been detered seems to me pretty conclusive.

Apparently a recent study has been done which shows that every DP results in 18 less homicides, based on post-moratorum stats in those US states.

I'll try to get the study. It was refered to in a class of mine and a website on it will be forthcoming by Thursday (hopefully).

[Velociryx]

I'm right there with Arrian, 'cept the 'fry him up' voice echoing in my head is calling a bit louder for me.

Why make society at large pay to keep this circus freak around till he grows old, deficates on himself and kicks the bucket? If he's found guilty, end him.

I can't imagine that any form of "rehabilitation" is going to change this character....given the (admittedly sketchy, in some ways) details we were presented with, does anybody genuinely think this guy's a candidate for rehabilatitive therapy?

So...why should society have to bear the cost of keeping this fruitcake around?

-=Vel=-

[Aeson]

I find the cost of supporting criminals in jail less daunting than the cost of our society using killing as retribution, punishment, or cost cutting. It undermines the premise that killing is wrong to enforce that premise through killing.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Apparently a recent study has been done which shows that every DP results in 18 less homicides, based on post-moratorum stats in those US states.

I'll try to get the study. It was refered to in a class of mine and a website on it will be forthcoming by Thursday (hopefully).

Don't shoot yourself in the foot, Imran. You mean that the number of homicides would multiply by 18 X DPs if the DP was abolished?

[Velociryx]

Double Post Hunted Down and Eaten

-=Vel=-

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Apparently a recent study has been done which shows that every DP results in 18 less homicides, based on post-moratorum stats in those US states.

I'll try to get the study. It was refered to in a class of mine and a website on it will be forthcoming by Thursday (hopefully).

Don't shoot yourself in the foot, Imran. You mean that the number of homicides would increase by 18 X DPs if the DP was abolished?

[Velociryx]

A good point, Aeson, however, I do believe that the Death Penalty has its place in our arsenal, just as surely as war does (which is a non-discriminating "death sentence" for untold thousands of innocent bystanders each and every time we wage it).

If that's "okay" by way of the moral compass, then state sanctioned murder of someone who is beyond reasonable expectations of rehabilitation has to be okay too.

Society has a right to defend itself from the things that go bump in the night....this guy, is one of those.

-=Vel=-