Bush Job Creation Promises Failing to Deliver

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


i think in most cases, yea. or if not actual maximization, allowing the chance for each person to maximize.

Allowing people chances is a political problem. Actual maximization of utility is an economic problem.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

ok lets get less hypothetical. should government tax externality producers, or should they do something to get rid of this kink in D and S? yes
should government supply goods with free rider problems? in many cases yes.
should government allocate resources to each person depending on what job they take? no.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
should government allocate resources to each person depending on what job they take? no.

Do you believe that given an amount of output, an equal distribution of that output will provide more benefit to society than an unequal distribution?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Do you believe that given an amount of output, an equal distribution of that output will provide more benefit to society than an unequal distribution?

to a certain extent, id say it will, especially in developing countries. the more equal the wealth distribution is in some of those countries, the better off they will be (a lot better off than GDP may suggest.) in developed countries on the other hand, i'd say equal distribution, but to a lesser extent.'

but i believe this distribution which you talk about is through FIAT and not by price. one could also say that equal distribution is one in which people of equal monetary/ non tangible means, are able to get the same amount of things if they go to the same place, which is a better form of maximizing utility . . . (continuted below)

[Lawrence of Arabia]

since resources will be allocated to goods which are more desired, goods at all different price ranges. an economy where everyone makes the same will see a higher concentration of assets into the purchase of the same amount of goods and services, and the same types of goods and services.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
to a certain extent, id say it will, especially in developing countries. the more equal the wealth distribution is in some of those countries, the better off they will be (a lot better off than GDP may suggest.) in developed countries on the other hand, i'd say equal distribution, but to a lesser extent.'

The extent of the utility difference is determined by the extent of the difference in equality, obviously.

If you assume that there is diminishing utility for income, then it follows that nations like the US are not maximizing utility. In fact the difference in the actual utility and the potential utility in the US is particularly significant.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

If you assume that there is diminishing utility for income, then it follows that nations like the US are not maximizing utility. In fact the difference in the actual utility and the potential utility in the US is particularly significant.

most likely. but then we get to the question of 'does the government know how to maximize utility' or should we set up a system which allows for maximization of utility, and where those who dont fall out. or even 'does maximization need to occur on the macro or micro scale'

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


most likely. but then we get to the question of 'does the government know how to maximize utility'

You should ask yourself this question before studying economics. If the answer is no, then you should make your argument against economics as a legitamite social science. That would make you an anti-economist, not an economist.

If the govt can't maximize utility then we shouldn't even be concerned with economics, because that concern will be pointless or counterproductive.

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
or should we set up a system which allows for maximization of utility, and where those who dont fall out. or even 'does maximization need to occur on the macro or micro scale'

Again, if you aren't concerned with utility maximization, then you aren't really an economist.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

If the answer is no, then you should make your argument against economics as a legitamite social science.

i disagree. efficiency can only be assured through the price mechanism. how can the government assure this other than thru open market policies. economics isnt a science, and you cannot quantify everything. how do i know what my marginal utility is? i dont know. do you? because for a government to allocate everything to maximize utility, they would have to know that.

[Ned]

Originally posted by DanS
Hmmm... Reading the last couple of pages...

Regarding deficits, they do matter. How much of a concern they are is another story. To be sure, large persistent deficits are no good. I would hold Bush to a plan of eliminating the deficit by the time he is out of office, rather than half measures, like he is proposing.

DanS, Listen to yourself. You seem to acknowledge that deficits have an economic effect, and then call for a balanced budget without reference to other economic factors or conditions.

That kind of thinking is the problem, IMHO.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I really don't think so. HDTVs just replace regular TVs. So it really doesn't act as a stimulus. Computers and internet were different, because they were completely new.

If you have seen an HDTV, I think you will reconsider this statement. People are going to replace perfectly good TVs with much more expensive HDTVs once they have seen the difference.

Also, there seems to be a continuing upgrade to broadband internet that really makes a lot of products and services on the internet viable - like iTunes, movie downloads and the like.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ned


If you have seen an HDTV, I think you will reconsider this statement. People are going to replace perfectly good TVs with much more expensive HDTVs once they have seen the difference.

Also, there seems to be a continuing upgrade to broadband internet that really makes a lot of products and services on the internet viable - like iTunes, movie downloads and the like.

The real advances in consumer sales will be seen when broadband internet and HDTV are married on your entertainment center.

[Ned]

Plato, we are getting close. Right now DirecTV is marketing HDTV DTRs (Tivo, I believe) that record HDTV programs on a hard drive. Simply add a general purpose processor, and one has a computer. Add a DVD player and a game controller, you have video games. They also market satellite broadband. Add this in, and you have an integrated system that would permit online play, etc.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


i disagree. efficiency can only be assured through the price mechanism. how can the government assure this other than thru open market policies.

You asked me if the govt should know how to maximize utility. Why did you ask me that if your answer is yes.

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
economics isnt a science, and you cannot quantify everything. how do i know what my marginal utility is? i dont know. do you? because for a government to allocate everything to maximize utility, they would have to know that.

No they don't. If their problem is an economic problem they only need to maximize total utility. They need not be concerned with individual marginal utility or individual utility for that matter.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned
Plato, we are getting close. Right now DirecTV is marketing HDTV DTRs (Tivo, I believe) that record HDTV programs on a hard drive. Simply add a general purpose processor, and one has a computer. Add a DVD player and a game controller, you have video games. They also market satellite broadband. Add this in, and you have an integrated system that would permit online play, etc.

Yes, I've seen HDTV. It's a modest improvement, not a new product. It's been around for awhile, and the price has already dropped quite a bit. Anyway, I think the're made in China, and they won't create jobs here.