Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

[Lancer]

The west relied on them too much and was weak in europe imo. If we had allowed ourselves to become weak in a non-nuke world I think the Sovs would have attacked in the 70s or early 80s. Basicly this means nukes prevented a world war, right?

[Sava]

Yes, I think Mutually Assured Destruction detered a war.

[GePap]

Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by Lancer
The west relied on them too much and was weak in europe imo. If we had allowed ourselves to become weak in a non-nuke world I think the Sovs would have attacked in the 70s or early 80s. Basicly this means nukes prevented a world war, right?

What makes you think that in a non-nuclear world history would have been similar all the way up to 1970 and then all of a sudden changed?

The nuclear world begun in August 1945- n a non-nuclear world, history after that point in its entirety would have been very different.

[BeBMan]

Was there a will to war with the West in the USSR in the 70ies/80ies? I thought they had more to do with themselves.....

[Whoha]

they say ww3 was the cold war.

[Whoha]

however, war deaths were spiking upward for the last 1000 or so years until 1945, when they dropped a great deal afterwards, so nukes have done that much for us apparently.

[SpencerH]

I'm not sure if there was 'a will to go to war with the west' in the 70's and early 80's (I didnt get to sit in on any politboro meetings HEH HEH).

Consider this though, 1) the Soviets had a huge military armed with weaponry every bit as good as our own pointed at western europe, 2) they directly and indirectly (through puppet Cuba) supported insurgent activities against countries where the US and Europe had direct interests, 3) they remained more than willing to use their military in order to maintain control of their satellites in eastern europe.

The soviet military was riding high in the 70's and early 80's while NATO was declining. There may not have been a real 'will to go to war' but it didnt look that way to us. So, IMO, nukes helped maintain the balance and prevented even the thought of soviet or western aggression.

[BeBMan]

Hm, I could be wrong, but I thought the 50ies/60ies were more the time to worry about Soviet strength. It was the time of most military interventions (East-Germany 53, Hungary 56, Czechoslovakia 68), the time of the first Sputnik 57, and the first man in space 61. Also, since 79 the Soviet military was tied in Afghanistan, and the economical problems within he eastern block became bigger....

[ErikM]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Consider this though, 1) the Soviets had a huge military armed with weaponry every bit as good as our own pointed at western europe, 2) they directly and indirectly (through puppet Cuba) supported insurgent activities against countries where the US and Europe had direct interests, 3) they remained more than willing to use their military in order to maintain control of their satellites in eastern europe.

Or from Soviet perspective
1) US/NATO had a huge military armed with weaponry every bit as good as our own pointed at USSR,
2) they directly (Vietnam) and indirectly (Afganistan)supported insurgent activities against countries where USSR had direct interests,
3) they remained more than willing to use their military in order to maintain control of their satellites in South America and elsewhere.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by BeBro
Hm, I could be wrong, but I thought the 50ies/60ies were more the time to worry about Soviet strength. It was the time of most military interventions (East-Germany 53, Hungary 56, Czechoslovakia 68), the time of the first Sputnik 57, and the first man in space 61. Also, since 79 the Soviet military was tied in Afghanistan, and the economical problems within he eastern block became bigger....

I can only comment on what I've read of the 50's and 60's since I have no personal experience of the threat during those years. Sure, the soviets had a huge military but western forces were more on par at that time. I doubt the soviets had any fear of western aggression by the late 70's but there may have been some worries in that regard during the 50's and 60's.

Until the weaknesses in the the soviet military became apparent later on, their adventure in afghanistan was taken as clear evidence of their willingness to use their military to achieve their goals. Between that and Poland, we were very very worried.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by Lancer
The west relied on them too much and was weak in europe imo. If we had allowed ourselves to become weak in a non-nuke world I think the Sovs would have attacked in the 70s or early 80s. Basicly this means nukes prevented a world war, right?

Let's see . . . which country threatened the other directly with nukes, the US or USSR? That would be the US.

Which country encouraged the militaries in democratic states to overthorw their governments and establish military dictatorships? That would be the U.S. again.

Which country poured millions tens of millions into terrorist campaigns designed to bring down local governments? That would the U.S.

Which country poured millions into supporting local insurgencies agains governments allies to the other side? That would be both.

Which country sent its troops around the world invading countries allied to the other? U.S.

Which country sent its troops to various dicatorships to fight locally based insurgencies? The U.S.

Which country actually physically attacked the other? Again, the U.S.


But it was the Soviets who were going to invade the other side?

[Ned]

Re: Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Let's see . . . which country threatened the other directly with nukes, the US or USSR? That would be the US.

I love living in the Nedaverse which, translated, is anytime prior to the revision of history by communist history professors like Che.

Khruschev put missles into nuclear missles into Cuba and Castro even asked Khruschev to launch them in order to destroy the United States. Castro said that the USSR had 68-90 warheads in Cuba during the Cuban Missle Crisis. As Kennedy demanded that the Soviets withdraw them and imposed a quarantine, Castro demanded that the Soviets wipe the US off the map.

[Kontiki]

Re: Re: Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by Ned


I love living in the Nedaverse which, translated, is anytime prior to the revision of history by communist history professors like Che.

Khruschev put missles into nuclear missles into Cuba and Castro even asked Khruschev to launch them in order to destroy the United States. Castro said that the USSR had 68-90 warheads in Cuba during the Cuban Missle Crisis. As Kennedy demanded that the Soviets withdraw them and imposed a quarantine, Castro demanded that the Soviets wipe the US off the map.

And did you live through the nuclear annihilation of the US during that time Ned? I take it that was also the time Castro became the leader of the USSR?

[ErikM]

Re: Re: Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by Ned
Khruschev put missles into nuclear missles into Cuba and Castro even asked Khruschev to launch them in order to destroy the United States.

US missiles in Turkey and W Europe, on the other hand, was an entirely different ballgame.

Or you mean something else? I personally never heard of putting "missles into nuclear missles".

[chequita guevara]

Re: Re: Re: Did nukes prevent WWIII? ...erm, up to now that is.

Originally posted by Ned
Khruschev put missles into nuclear missles into Cuba and Castro even asked Khruschev to launch them in order to destroy the United States.

Did the USSR say to the US, back off Cuba or we will nuke you? No. At no point did the USSR ever threaten to use nukes on the U.S. The alternative happened multiple times, however. The first time was immediately after WWII, when the U.S. ambassador told the USSR it must end its occupation of Northern Persia or the U.S. would let the USSR have it "with both barrels." IIRC, the US threatened the USSR with nuclear war directly on five seperate occassions.

OT, I'm glad to see you have a sense of humor about yourself. That's very cool.