What group of americans are still being discriminated against?

[Verto]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


I agree there is a lot of prejudice against LDS folks. Not really any anti-Mormon laws though, except maybe anti-poligamy laws, but I guess y'all don't do that anymore. But yea, I hear a lot of bad things said about LDS. I'm with ya.

Well, if we wanted to devote all our efforts to punishing others for what their predecessors did, we could demand the land and property be given back, or that we be compensated for it. And then, of course, there is the emotional distress caused by the killings, the rape, etc. And then we would go after the governments of Illinois and Missouri.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
In many parts of the country the polling places are located in the elementary schools because elementary schools are plentiful and convenient, so actually it would be very easy for little kids to reach the polling places in "massive" numbers. I think you'd begin to see the NEA's agenda getting a very big boost since young children are very impressionable and easy to sway. Heck, the teachers might lead their little charges right up to the polling places all nice, orderly, and in single file. Man, are your local taxes going to go through the roof.

Well maybe it would be good to have a voting block to counter balance the senior centers, where I might add, polling places are also located. Those impressional seniors are just bussed into their polling places to boost the agenda of groups like AARP. But of course stuff like this would only happen in a crazy world where young people voted. What an unimaginable counter-utopia.

Though I imagine in your next breath when you are making some other anti-youth argument you will say kids are all stubborn, defiant, and refuse to respect their elders. All traits of course that make your characterization of kids as being willing sheep for the NEA to troop out impossible. People who argue against youth rights make so many contradictory arguments its heartbreaking. I know I am jumping ahead here, but I've heard it far too often.

Wow. This is so timely coming so soon after the tragedy of the two little kids who died drinking. I'm fairly certain that the countries with the greatest youth drinking problems are in Europe. Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Scotland come to mind. Further more, your statement about the alleged increase in drinking during prohibition sort of conflicts with hard statistics showing a decrease in the death rate from alcoholic liver disease from 1925 to 1935.

Oh boo hoo, 2 kids died. You know how many adults die from drinking? Do you realize the rates are much higher for adults than for youth? Also, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Scotland don't have alcohol laws as lax as countries like Italy, Spain, Portugaul, France, and Greece, who have lower problems with alcohol.

Also, what good do you think the drinking age is doing? The United States has the highest drinking age in the world. Has it solved all our problems with alcohol? Has the recent crackdown dramatically changed youth drinking habits? Well since you are big on statistics, here are some for you:

For students grades 7-12 in the US

Ever had a drink:
1952 - 90%
1978 - 87%
1991 - 90%

Drinks weekly:
1952 - 47%
1978 - 46%
1991 - 48%

Reports problems with drinking:
1952 - 16%
1978 - 16%
1991 - 15%

Average age of first drink:
1952 - 12
1978 - 12
1991 - 12

Males, Mike A., The Scapegoat Generation Common Courage. 1996. p. 204

You push for a drinking age, but if its not working, and if its not having an effect on youth drinking at all, wouldn't you, empircally, be open to new options? Or are you too closedminded and ideological/prejudiced to accept any law or practice that disagrees with your entrenched beliefs? The drinking age is not stopping anyone from drinking, it just makes things more dangerous.

It's well established that the accident rate of teens is much higher than that of older people. In fact studies show that the accident rate among teen drivers is actually higher than that of elderly people with know Alzeheimer's disease! The higher rate isn't completely explained by inexperience, because the accident rate among newly licensed drivers older than 20 is not as high as that of newly licensed teens.

I'd very much like to see a study that shows new drivers over 20 are better than new teenage drivers.

One thing I do know though is most people are guided by their prejudices, not their heads. For example if two 16 year olds are killed in a car accident everyone gets angry and immediately passes laws to tighten restrictions on all teen drivers. Its happened many times. All it takes is one accident, however rare they are, and everyone gets outraged and punishes those teens left alive for the sins of their reckless peers.

However not long ago a senior in California drove into an open air market and killed like a dozen people. Where were the outcries of shock and outrage? Sure people were upset, but no one proposed or passed legislation to restrict the driving priveledges of people over 60.

Our society has already been down that road. I have many patients who were children before the child labor laws were enacted. They were taken out of school and forced to work. They began their working lives at the most menial of jobs, but later found they had no marketable skills when the menial jobs dried up. Most became unemployed or under employed by their 40s because they're functionally illiterate and can not adjust to new job situations. If you were to spend at least 10 minutes with someone who got yanked out of 5th grade to go to work full time you'd know better than to suggest that the child labor laws be struck down.

Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote. I believe you are a smart person however, so I'm sure I didn't use any big words that confused you. I clearly said forcing someone to work is illegal. It doesn't matter if a person is 13 or 30. If your patients were yanked out of school and made to work in some menial job then that would be against the law now, and in the future if youth were allowed to work *voluntarily*. As you say, the jobs they got were menial, so I imagine most kids would choose to go to school and get an education instead of working in some menial job. So your fears are unfounded and already addressed.

Under the law children are generally considered to have a lesser degree of responsibility. You can't write a valid contract between two parties if one of them has diminished responsibility. Part of the process of growing up is after all the learning of responsibility. If you abolish the concept that a child has less reponsibility for his actions than an adult then you're opening up a real can of worms. Why bother to build special facilities for youthful offenders? If they're just as responsible as adults then send them to the pen! Bubba wuvs little Billy!
There are features of contract law that a kid just isn't going to understand, and saddling them with adult responsibilities is just plain unfair.

They already are sending youthful offenders to the pen! Young criminals already are sentanced as adults! Where have you been the last 15 years? But yea, if "little Billy" decides to take his hunting rifle to school and start picking off his classmates, I sure hope they send him to the pen. I'd hate for that cold blooded killer to get released back in society. These kids who kill know damn well what they are doing, the courts have already shown that.

As for contract law, as others have noted, most adults don't understand or read through the entirety of the contracts they sign. Are you going to deny them the ability to sign contracts? If not, then you are applying an unequal standard.

All I'm really looking for is an equal standard. The laws that oppress youth are full of hypocricies and rational leaps of faith.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Verto
Well, if we wanted to devote all our efforts to punishing others for what their predecessors did, we could demand the land and property be given back, or that we be compensated for it. And then, of course, there is the emotional distress caused by the killings, the rape, etc. And then we would go after the governments of Illinois and Missouri.

Its a good response to people asking for slavery reparations. When you find a Democrat asking for slavery reparations, tell them they need to cough up money to the most conservative block of voters in the country too.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I'd very much like to see a study that shows new drivers over 20 are better than new teenage drivers.

Why do you think insurance rates are insanely high for drivers under 20? (Here's a hint: insurance companies are motivated by profit, not prejudice.)

[OzzyKP]

Btw, Kucinich supports lowering the voting age.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Btw, Kucinich supports lowering the voting age.

and you'd mention this in support of your argument, why?

[OzzyKP]

Cause skywalker just changed his name to Kucinich. I assume he is a fan, in which case he'd be interested to know that Kucinich supports lowering the voting age.

It all ties in.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Equal justice under the law is one thing. There's something called distributive justice. That is law which corrects for injustice in society due to things like discrimination.

I think it's called corrective justice, comrade.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Males, Mike A., The Scapegoat Generation Common Courage. 1996. p. 204

Please, when you quote studies, quote from peer-reviewed journals, or at least use sources that quote from those.

Any idiot can publish a book. Just look at the books about horoscopes, for example.

[Nubclear]

I love this Ozzy teenage angstfest

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Verto
Well, back to the original question, I could say we Latter-day Saints/Mormons are still being discriminated against. No kind of legal redress has been given, that I know of. At least one governor had the decency to apologize and rescind the Extermination Order.

I am repressed! Sympathize and pity me!

Didn't the city of Salt Lake sell Main Street to your church? And then, when your church complained about protestors, the city revoked the easement for free speech on Main Street. Yeah, real oppressed. The only oppression is against non-Mormons stupid or insane enough to live in Utah.

Although if you quit going door to door to convert people, they might be more friendly.

[Nubclear]

I resent being called stupid OR insane.

[Urban Ranger]

Are you repressed by the Mormons?

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
I resent being called stupid OR insane.

Then move.


(But really, why do you live in Utah?)

[MrBaggins]

Does being annoyed by the door bell ringing on Saturday count as repression?