No need for iTunes now on Windows

[reismark]

I expect Apple to be suing Nullsoft within several weeks.

Then I expect the courts to tell Apple to go **** themselves.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by reismark
I expect Apple to be suing Nullsoft within several weeks.

Then I expect the courts to tell Apple to go **** themselves.

Why would they?

Apple makes nothing from itunes other than through the store. If people want to buy music for their ipod, they have to use the store and that means using itunes. But the store only exists to sell ipods - it doesn't make any money.

If more people are going to buy ipods now that their favourite player, Winamp, is compatible with them, that seems a win for Apple.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Uggerly.

Terrible interface.

So change it? What exactly is wrong with it?

No rendezvous music sharing IIRC

Seeing how Rendezvous is a proprietary Apple thing...no.

[Asher]

Originally posted by monolith94
That interface is really, really ugly looking. Looks unweildly too.

The itunes interface just works, plain and simple. Everything I want is fullfilled by it. Everything.

You don't demand that your music player takes up a huge amount of screen real-estate? Or how about the visualizations on par with what we saw in the late 90s on PCs?

If you ask me, the iTunes interface is horrid. Which isn't so bad in and of itself, except unlike Winamp, you can't skin iTunes.

Winamp supports freeform skinning. You don't like the interface, then make your own... It's possible to completely replicate iTunes UI if anyone so chooses. Nobody is that dumb, though.

[Boris Godunov]

So then recommend me a player. First and foremost of concerns is sound quality. After that, price, and then interface. I could care less about how the thing looks or how "thin" it is. Is the Dell the best in this regard?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So then recommend me a player. First and foremost of concerns is sound quality. After that, price, and then interface. I could care less about how the thing looks or how "thin" it is. Is the Dell the best in this regard?

The Nomad Zens are the best in sound quality (98 dB SNR).

The Dell Jukeboxes are 94 or 96 dB SNR (can't recall which).

The iPods are 92 dB SNR.

The Dell Jukeboxes are VERY similar to the Zens, as it's based off of them. Dell's substituted from cheaper DSP parts, and cost more, but come with a longer warranty.

In terms of price:
Zen < Jukebox < iPod

In terms of interface, that's entirely subjective. I have a Zen and have zero problems with it. Everything is painfully easy to do, and -- most importantly -- I can play/pause and change tracks by blindly putting my hand in my pocket and pressing the buttons on the side. It's very painful to do that with an iPod, and that's primarily how I change songs...

[Agathon]

Boris. Asher thinks that SNR ratings are conclusive for sound quality.


Go to a shop and listen to a few.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Asher thinks that SNR ratings are conclusive for sound quality.

Well I'd think the ratio of sound to noise would be important.

[Boris Godunov]

So the only advantage to the Dell over the Zen seems to be the warranty, eh?

Hmmm, Zen seems to be a good choice. I'd never get an iPod. I've played with my roommate's, don't like the interface at all.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Boris. Asher thinks that SNR ratings are conclusive for sound quality.


Go to a shop and listen to a few.

Every single review that compares the two also concludes that the Zen sounds better.

Look: I know you think you're some audiophile, but you're a moron when it comes to anything digital.

MP3 Players are purely digital device, up to the headphone jack. At that point, it's outside of the scope of the player and in the realm of the headphone.

Inside the player, since it is a purely digital system, we can use purely digital metrics such as the Signal-to-Noise ratio to identify how "pure" the sound is. It can be accurately and repeatedly measured for digital devices, and the results are always within the margin of error.

SNR is the predominant quality indicator for a purely digital device.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So the only advantage to the Dell over the Zen seems to be the warranty, eh?

Personally I think the Dell controls are better... but that's a YMMV thing.

[Boris Godunov]

YMMV?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Your Milage May Vary.

[Skanky Burns]

EDIT: Must remember to refresh before replying occasionally.

[Asher]

Some subjective audio quality reviews for Aggie:

http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20031122/zen_nx-02.html

But where Creative Labs comes out tops is, as ever, in the quality of its playback. Is this not as it should be for a device this expensive? We tested it with WAV 16/44 and MP3 192kbps. The rendering is perfectly neutral with the standard setting. You get the entire spectrum with no parasite noise. Creative claims an excellent SNR of 98dB which we did not measure but are prepared to believe. Hooked up to a high-end sound system (H/K amplifier, 106dB tower speakers), there was practically no background noise, even with the volume turned up high, and no sound transferred from one channel to another.
...
Our conclusion is that the Creative Labs Zen NX is the best-designed portable player around. Its perfectly acceptable size, gigantic storage capacity, good looks, good ergonomics and, above all, outstanding quality playback make this the best device of its kind on the market.

Note that the Zen NX has been replaced with the Zen Xtra, which has a larger screen and blue backlight. Zens also have removable harddrives and batteries, the iPod has neither of these.

Also see a bunch of subjective test results: http://www.ipodlounge.com/forums/sho...&threadid=8168

the way they have implemented the EAX (Equaliser) settings is a hell of a lot more advanced, and in my humble opinion sounds a #### site better, I must stress, I'm not talking about overall sound quality, just the quality of the built in DSP that the Zen has. I mean you set garage, or bathroom, or concert hall, and by god it actually sounds like you're really there. Then again, I guess Creative's business has always been sound cards, so no real surprise there.

...

Right battery life, a mute point for most of us, and unfortunately the zen is in a league of it's own here. I haven't even fully charged the zen's battery, it's status is pretty much full, I've been hammering all the menu options over and over again, skipping tracks like there's no tomorrow, full volume with every possible DSP effect I can throw at it, getting onto 4hrs now and the battery hasn't even gone off full yet. So thats really pleasing. In stark contrast, an hour's heavy playing in the menu system of the Pod will have the batter dropping down to 3, further scanning of songs, and heaven forbid I smack the bass boost on, and the battery will be on 1 before I even have a chance to think why the hell I didn't bring the charger out with me. I KNOW people say if you leave it on a long playlist, don't change the track, no backlight, no equaliser, blahblahblah, it probably would reach 8hrs, BUT if I can hammer the zen for 4hrs solid and have the hard drive spinning up every few seconds and it still hasn't left full charge, apple are doing something wrong, yet again, firmware update please !

http://www.ipodlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9265

the iPod 3gen has inferiour sound quality compared to most other MP3 players and other portables. The iPod (3rd Gen) has a bit canned/harsh sound, whereas other devices sound more open, solid, airy and relaxed (some sources say the 2nd gen sounds better).