Civil Unions for ALL, and to all a good night.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Elok
I am inclined to think that, had Thomas Jefferson grown up today, he would have watched a few hours of reality TV and then devised a system specifically designed to keep the common man from having a voice in government at all. You can think otherwise, but it's speculation either way, and we're basically putting words in the mouths of the "gods of democracy," so to speak.

And no, it has nothing to do with gay marriage. Rants are like that.

True, Jefferson probably would try to strengthen the electoral college, but I'd certainly think he was justified too...

[Elok]

Now who's being anti-democratic?

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Elok
Now who's being anti-democratic?

It's a representative republic!

[Elok]

"Representative Republic, n. A two-part system of government in which the individual's happiness is assured by the appointment of officials who promise to give the people what they ask for, while the individual's best interests are served by those officials not giving the people what they ask for. See United States of America, Rome (ancient), Hostage Negotiation."

So there.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Elok
"Representative Republic, n. A two-part system of government in which the individual's happiness is assured by the appointment of officials who promise to give the people what they ask for, while the individual's best interests are served by those officials not giving the people what they ask for. See United States of America, Rome (ancient), Hostage Negotiation."

So there.

Heh... though I question the last example, the rest sounds fairly accurate.

You forgot about people being stupid... individuals, they're okay, but when you get people together, you're in trouble.

[Elok]

Yes, but then you run into the problem that individual human beings are pretty much useless. One man could never have built the pyramids. One man would've had the sense not to bother, but one man couldn't have done it alone.

[Giancarlo]

I have some fantastic news (not so fantastic for the christian right). Support for gay civil unions, where all the same rights as heterosexual marriage is up. And opposition to gay marriage itself is starting to erode:

MSNBC
Updated: 11:18 a.m. ET March 10, 2004The heated debate over gay
marriage is strengthening public support for legalizing civil unions
for same-sex couples, with a majority of Americans now in favor of
such formal recognition, according to two polls released Wednesday.

Reflecting what appears to be a search for middle ground on the
issue, both the Washington Post-ABC News poll and the USA
Today/CNN/Gallup poll showed a significant shift in public opinion
on civil unions in recent months.

The latter survey found 54 percent of respondents favor civil unions
for gay and lesbian couples, with 42 percent opposing them. In a
poll conducted in July by the same organizations, 57 percent opposed
civil unions and 40 percent favored them.

The Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 51 percent of
respondents favor allowing same-sex couples to enter into civil
unions with the same basic legal rights as married couples, up 6
percentage points in less than a month.

Deep divisions remain on gay marriage
But both surveys also reflected deep divisions on same-sex marriage.

The Post-ABC News survey found that 59 percent of Americans oppose
gay marriage – up 4 percentage points from February. But the same
poll found that 53 percent took issue with President Bush's call
for
a constitutional amendment outlawing the full legal recognition of
same-sex couples.

Instead, the poll found that a slim majority –- 53 percent -–
favors
allowing the states to determine whether to issue same-sex wedding
license.

The margin of error of the survey of 1,202 randomly selected adults,
which was conducted March 4-7, was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

The USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll found a slight softening of opposition
to gay marriages, with 61 percent rejecting such unions, down 3
percent from a survey three weeks earlier.

Support for constitutional ban weakens
It also indicated that support for a constitutional ban was
weakening slightly, with 50 percent supporting that approach,
compared to 53 percent in the February survey. Opposition to a
constitutional amendment inched higher over the period, rising from
44 percent to 45 percent, according to the survey.

At the same time, the poll found that nearly two-thirds of Americans
say that local officials should be forced to stop issuing marriage
licenses to same-sex couples, according to the survey of 1,005
Americans conducted March 5-7. The survey had a margin of error of
plus or minus 3 percent on most questions.

Debate over the issue has moved to the forefront in the months since
the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled in November that gay
marriage would become legal in the state on May 17.

Local officials in California, Oregon, New York and New Jersey have
added to the controversy by issuing marriage licenses to gay
couples, in many cases in defiance of state laws banning such unions.

Bush said last month that he supports a constitutional ban on same-
sex marriage, injecting the matter squarely into the presidential
race.

Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the presumptive Democratic
nominee, has said he is opposed to gay marriage but favors allowing
states to determine their own course.

© 2004 MSNBC Interactive