Israeli vandalises Swedish suicide bomber art

[GePap]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by Kull


Well, here on my planet it seems pretty clear. I'm guessing that if you lived in a country that was experiencing a wave of suicide bombings and perhaps even knew some of the victims, well maybe - just maybe - glorification of that activity might muster up a little anger on your part. But since you don't live in that world, it is - to use your own words - "alien to my own". So by all means, continue to criticize that which you do not and cannot understand. And be sure to take a high moral tone while so doing.

Maybe you had some problems with reading comprehension at school, but my point is that I don't understand the idea that this is glorification, and by the poll, a supermajority of Poly posters also do not think this is glorification of her acts.

Also, my family is lucky not to have known victims of suicide attacks, given that the greatest suicide attack in history happened in my town.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Cruddy


Ned, I am not so dumb as to start posting quotations from people I consider to be crazier than a sack of cut snakes.

* Cruddy thinks - "Holy crap, that's how my Brit Liberal thread started".

But if you REALLY want me to - I will. Just for the people who are too BONE IDLE to go look for themselves. For those who aren't so lazy, try searching for quotes from Kach, Kahane Chai, Gush Emunim, Moledat and the National Religious Party.

It's Holocaust Memorial day here in the UK. Do you really, really want this?

Not really. But if there are extremists who are racists or whatever, is a whole movement/philosophy to be tarnished by grouping the innocent with the guilty in one broad statement?

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Ned


Not really. But if there are extremists who are racists or whatever, is a whole movement/philosophy to be tarnished by grouping the innocent with the guilty in one broad statement?

My proposal is that would be down to Israeli courts, not outsiders like us.

Of course, I doubt if Israel would adopt such a legal move - it would be too much like accepting that Arabs are people too.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Agathon
No. Why not just give the Palestinians the vote like the South Africans did for blacks?

Sounds reasonable. Conditions today are much more favorable to a peace than in 1948 where Arab armies attacked from all directions.

Still, if I were an Israeli, I would condition such a settlement on banning Hamas and other such terrorist organizations as political parties.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Agathon


No. Why not just give the Palestinians the vote like the South Africans did for blacks?

Well, 1+ million Arabs already have the vote. The others arent citizens - hence, they have no vote - in Israeli elections (with the exception of Palestinians in Jerusalem who, IIRC, do get to vote). Same way millions of non-citizens don't have the vote in the US.

They do have the right to vote in Palestinian elections.

[Ned]

Yeah, but Edan, granting the Pals citizenship in Israel is quite different than in '48 where the Jews would have been granted citizenship in a Palestine that had no effective government, constitution or laws.

[Generalissimo]

Originally posted by Cruddy
As a first step to this total and final agreement - why not criminalise incitement to religious or racial hatred?

I’m pretty sure we have laws against religious\racial\political\whatever incitement.
After the Rabin assassination the government put out whole bunch of laws referring to incitement. The pre1995 era was a judicial no man land's.

Originally posted by Agathon
No. Why not just give the Palestinians the vote like the South Africans did for blacks?
THEM.

The Israeli Arabs can vote.
Palestinians cant and shouldn’t vote since the territories are not part of the state of Israel and hence the Israeli civil law is not valid over there. They can vote in inner Palestinian elections.

Originally posted by Agathon
See... put the boot in again. It's them... IT'S THEM IT'S THEM.

Can you be a little more specific?
We are to blame because after the holocaust we finally understood that we need our own state and the UN actually gave us that state? (Hell, even the USSR voted for the plan).
Or are we the blame because we won our independence war?

60 years, so what?
70 years ago Hitler rose to power, 85 years ago the communists got Russia under their grip.
60 years in history is not even the blink of an eye.

The Palestinian “Government” doesn’t want one democratic multi-ethnical country as you suggest. They want one Arab dictatorship from the sea to the Jordan as put in their words.
But because they know this scenario is unlikely they are aiming for an independent state in Gaza and the West Bank, that will be just another step to the annihilation of Israel (it’s a fundamental part of the Palestinian dogma but you probably don’t know much about it because you cant speak Arabic and more important you probably don’t know much about how Arabic countries and rulers tick, do you).
Speaking about Palestine in 1999 Barak offered them 95% of Gaza and the west bank plus Clinton promised them a generous international funding so they can build a decent country.
Arafat had no reason to suspect that Clinton is lying to him since the EU virtually funded him in the 90’s and part of the 00’s.
The offer was almost perfect but not perfect enough (Although it was the best deal he ever got). So he choose an armed conflict and now both of the sides pay the price of it.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Generalissimo
The Israeli Arabs can vote.
Palestinians cant and shouldn’t vote since the territories are not part of the state of Israel and hence the Israeli civil law is not valid over there. They can vote in inner Palestinian elections.

Which begs the question why so many israelis live in the territories under Israeli Civil Law- it also brings to question why many pals should live under Israeli military law, and why pals living under palestinian civil law still have to comply with Israeli military decrees concerning thier movements, building of homes, so forth.

[Ned]

With the permission of the UN, Israel could annex the rest of Palestine and give the arabs there the right to vote.

I am not so sure that the Arabs in "Palestine" would be so keen on Right of Return and Reparations if they were to be part of the state of Israel.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Edan
Somebody gave me a great suggestion for what the ambassador should have done - he should have taken twenty two pictures of each of the victims, and then he should have slowly, and silently, placed the pictures into the "pond" for the cameras. And waited until someone pulled them out again.

Good idea, and then the artwork would have remained interperetive. It would have been a great move, but defacing it, was barbaric.

Re: the pictures.

Ever see what a piece of shredded metal from a vehicle struck by a hellfire missile looks like embedded in the side of a wall with a palestinian kid's brains seered to it like burnt hamburger? That's my picture for you.

[Kull]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by GePap


Maybe you had some problems with reading comprehension at school, but my point is that I don't understand the idea that this is glorification, and by the poll, a supermajority of Poly posters also do not think this is glorification of her acts.

It's pretty clear that one of us has a problem with comprehension, but it's not me. Even ignoring the artist's pathetic written explanation, if you actually LOOK at the exhibit it's pretty clear that this suicide bomber is getting the full hosanna treatment. She shredded the lives of innocent people and is depicted as a smiling, "pure-as-the-driven-snow" saint. You want to know what real art is? Picasso's Guernica says it all, and he doesn't have to blatantly take sides or provide a written explanation to us ignoratii. The work speaks for itself - as - sadly, does the swedish obscenity. Case closed.