Israeli vandalises Swedish suicide bomber art

[Generalissimo]

Originally posted by Agathon
In advanced industrialized societies pluralism is now the norm.

It might be true.
But what do you suggest? , That we disband Israel in a quick 5-year plan? and move 5.5 million israelis to North America?
And lets assume that 100% of the Jewish population is willing to move from isreal.
Why are you so sure that Canada and the USA will so willing to accept them?
Besides, when looking at the circumstances in which Israel was born you realize it was the same old world.

There is enough place under the sun for both of the nations.
The only problem is that neither of the sides (especially the Arab one) is willing to end this conflict in a total and final agreement.

[Kull]

Re: Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by Osweld


Let's give a skinhead a sledge hammer and put him in the holocaust museum. I'm sure you'll love the performance he delivers.

Congratulations Osweld! You've perfectly captured the essence of that piece of obscenity posing as "art".

[GePap]

Re: Re: Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by Kull


Congratulations Osweld! You've perfectly captured the essence of that piece of obscenity posing as "art".

Wow, so many words, so little said.

I won;t even try anymore to understand the people who think this offensive, for their worldview of art is too alien to my own for any sort of discussion, since to have a discussion you need some common assumptions- how anyone can assume that someone's picture surrounded in a pool of blood is some sort of endorsement for them is beyond me, really.

[Kull]

Re: Re: Re: Dumbest argument ever.

Originally posted by GePap

I won;t even try anymore to understand the people who think this offensive, for their worldview of art is too alien to my own for any sort of discussion, since to have a discussion you need some common assumptions- how anyone can assume that someone's picture surrounded in a pool of blood is some sort of endorsement for them is beyond me, really.

Well, here on my planet it seems pretty clear. I'm guessing that if you lived in a country that was experiencing a wave of suicide bombings and perhaps even knew some of the victims, well maybe - just maybe - glorification of that activity might muster up a little anger on your part. But since you don't live in that world, it is - to use your own words - "alien to my own". So by all means, continue to criticize that which you do not and cannot understand. And be sure to take a high moral tone while so doing.

[Ned]

Well put, Kull.

[notyoueither]

Could you read the accompanying literature that has 'the murderers' soon to be crying, and then later mentions the names of Jewish families who lost members to the bombers and says that indeed they are crying?

Like I said, I did not see a problem with the work itself, it was the... artists' (the term is used very loosely) attempts to explain it that tilted it for me.

[Kull]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Could you read the accompanying literature that has 'the murderers' soon to be crying, and then later mentions the names of Jewish families who lost members to the bombers and says that indeed they are crying?

Like I said, I did not see a problem with the work itself, it was the... artists' (the term is used very loosely) attempts to explain it that tilted it for me.

If anything condemns this piece, it's the creator's need to explain it via some kind of written manifesto. I do not pretend to great knowledge in this arena, but it seems to me that one of the FUNDAMENTAL principles of art is that it should speak for itself! If you have to append a document to explain the darn thing, than it's.....I don't know WHAT it is, but art it ain't.

[Edan]

and the red looked beautiful upon the white

and the red looked beautiful upon the white

and the red looked beautiful upon the white

and the red looked beautiful upon the white

Somebody gave me a great suggestion for what the ambassador should have done - he should have taken twenty two pictures of each of the victims, and then he should have slowly, and silently, placed the pictures into the "pond" for the cameras. And waited until someone pulled them out again.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Generalissimo


It might be true.
But what do you suggest? , That we disband Israel in a quick 5-year plan? and move 5.5 million israelis to North America?

Now, don't make promises you have no intention of keeping .

Originally posted by Generalissimo
And lets assume that 100% of the Jewish population is willing to move from isreal.
Why are you so sure that Canada and the USA will so willing to accept them?
Besides, when looking at the circumstances in which Israel was born you realize it was the same old world.

There is enough place under the sun for both of the nations.
The only problem is that neither of the sides (especially the Arab one) is willing to end this conflict in a total and final agreement.

As a first step to this total and final agreement - why not criminalise incitement to religious or racial hatred?

If you started locking up the hard core Zionist's (and the loudmouth's on the Arab side who live in Israel) it would help the cause of moderation no end.

Freedom to speak, fine. Freedom to abuse or declare fatwa - NO!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Cruddy

As a first step to this total and final agreement - why not criminalise incitement to religious or racial hatred?

If you started locking up the hard core Zionist's (and the loudmouth's on the Arab side who live in Israel) it would help the cause of moderation no end.

Why are Zionists linked here with people who incite religious hatred?

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Ned


Why are Zionists linked here with people who incite religious hatred?

Try "Zion for the Jews, everyone else is a damned gentile".

You will notice the "hard core" prefix on my use of the word Zionist.

[Ned]

So I say that my home is for my family and that is religious or racial hatred of everyone else?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Generalissimo

It might be true.
But what do you suggest? , That we disband Israel in a quick 5-year plan? and move 5.5 million israelis to North America?

No. Why not just give the Palestinians the vote like the South Africans did for blacks?

[QUOTE]Besides, when looking at the circumstances in which Israel was born you realize it was the same old world.[QUOTE]

That was 60 years ago.

There is enough place under the sun for both of the nations.
The only problem is that neither of the sides (especially the Arab one) is willing to end this conflict in a total and final agreement.

See... put the boot in again. It's them... IT'S THEM IT'S THEM.

[dannubis]

Have you ever seen the images of their protests ?
They are the most radical people you can imagine (about the same level of crazyness compared to the members of Hamas).
Ironical though how both religions preach peace. Perhaps it's time for a new (preferably localized) great flood...

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Ned
So I say that my home is for my family and that is religious or racial hatred of everyone else?

Ned, I am not so dumb as to start posting quotations from people I consider to be crazier than a sack of cut snakes.

* Cruddy thinks - "Holy crap, that's how my Brit Liberal thread started".

But if you REALLY want me to - I will. Just for the people who are too BONE IDLE to go look for themselves. For those who aren't so lazy, try searching for quotes from Kach, Kahane Chai, Gush Emunim, Moledat and the National Religious Party.

It's Holocaust Memorial day here in the UK. Do you really, really want this?