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Education in the US - going strong or a shambles?

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  • Education in the US - going strong or a shambles?

    First off, I am biased. I was a hyperactive lightly dyslexic child who the Parochial school system, and a wonderful mother, turned into a National Merit Scholar. I have also had major run-ins with the American public school sector (I'm establishing bias here).

    One thing that I find utterly horrifying today is that you can graduate college without any training in statistics, and get a degree in the sciences without any courses in logic. Rhetoric is becoming a lost art. "Dead white males" is used to marginalize great writing, instead of being used to increase the number of great texts, like the Tao Te Ching, which I feel should be included in at some level in required college literature classes.

    High school gets scarier. You can graduate without understanding that antibiotics will only kill bacteria, and will do nothing for a cold. You can graduate without understanding how to figure out if the buy one/get one free pizza is a better buy than the large one (after you get the radius, of course). You can graduate without knowing more than two paragraphs about the crusades, because that's all that's in the history books.

    You can be in seventh grade and not know how to sound out words. I know this personally, a woman whose children I raised for five years in WV, her youngest son was in this situation. They were going to pass him on to eigth grade! You can leave grade school without basic math skills, or high school and not know how to diagram a sentence, or any basic grammer at all. You can graduate college with minimal English composition skills, and still virtually no knowledge of grammer.

    Before you suggest that today's primary and secondary education should only concentrate on teaching, remember that a child who is hungry, abused, neglected et al DOESN'T learn. What's even worse is they are the children needing the most intervention. My mother was wonderful, I am indeed fortunate that way, and even with my early problems, her intervention would have helped me succeed. It's the neglected children, who have never had a book read to them prior to kindergarten, who sit around in front of a television all day, whose parents undermine the efforts of schools. Berzerker, when you post about the evils of public school, please mention then how you deal with the children of the poor, and the social problems if you don't educate them.

    edited grammer
    The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
    And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
    Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
    Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

  • #2
    Isn't it cheaper for USA to import "finished" workforce than to educate your own? So why are you complaining?

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    • #3
      Going strong, all that needs happen is that a parent needs to care about their child's education.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's spelled "grammar."

        On a more serious note, my experience with public schooling has been the opposite of yours — my educators were concerned for my well-being, both personal and when it came to academics. I had a good, solid experience. No, I wasn't a National Merit Scholar, but I earned my place on the honor rolls in high school and at university (and also earned scholarships based on that). Heh. I'm also a member of the Kappa Tau Alpha, the honor society for journalists, FWIW.

        Gatekeeper

        P.S. Of course, if you listen to the likes of the tech sector, America's education system is now surpassed by China and India. I, of course, suspect it's because the execs can get away with paying overseas workers a pittance.
        "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

        "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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        • #5
          Of course, if you listen to the likes of the tech sector, America's education system is now surpassed by China and India.
          Actually, both cultures place heavy emphasis on intellectualism.
          America places emphasis on the physical side of things, and I don't mean athleticism.
          Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
          Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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          • #6
            I know, this country is soo lame. I don't know why idiots like us have an astronomical GNP, but we do.


            I'm still not sure whether I'm being sarcastic in this post or not.
            "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

            Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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            • #7
              Second post
              Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
              Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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              • #8
                Gatekeeper,

                My experiences were as an unofficial stepparent, who had to drag their mother to the PTA's - the latter was my first sign, well, not the first, but the first I couldn't justify, that their mother and I would not make it. So the parent statement is very germane.

                Oh, spelling has become a problem in the last year or so, some problems with high blood pressure "bled over" so to speak, I was so focused on heart disease I forgot about the little thing called "transient ischaemic attacks." Unfortunately, if I get a full diagnosis I lose my job for three years, and my retirement, so I'm having to work around my insurance. Unfortunately I've had some memory problems, aphasia and a sudden massive increase in spelling errors. Kismet.
                The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
                And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
                Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
                Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A lot of these things you suggest are a complete waste of time Shaun...
                  Speaking of Erith:

                  "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                  • #10
                    Don't worry, plenty of other countries have badly ****ed-up educational systems too. One of my adult students wants to send her 7/8 year old son to Canada or America to live with relatives (I got a very good laugh when she suggested sending him to Washington DC) to get a better education. Then I get to see kids doing to public school 6 days a week and then having 20 hours (or in the case of one kid, 25 hours) or after school classes on top of that and get told about high school student being at school 16 hours a day in their final year.

                    Oh course after that, they're so burned out they mostly slack off in college and don't learn a damn thing, defeating the whole idea pretty much. Knew a gyopo (Korean who was born/grew up abroad) who had an engineering job here and before he came he was afraid that he'd have a hard time after hearing about how hard Koreans study and was very surprised at how ignorant most of his co-workers were.
                    Stop Quoting Ben

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                    • #11
                      Waste of time? Basic understanding of science, maths, history, and English language skills are a waste of time?
                      Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                      -Richard Dawkins

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                      • #12
                        Boshko, thanks for the insight, that's one of the things I was hoping for, some posters who are familiar with other countries.

                        Provost Harrison, I'm interested. I am seriously planning, in three years when I can retire, if I can afford it, to run for the local school board (I've mentioned it before - cannot till then because of the Hatch act, it makes it illegal for government employees with certain exceptions). Even though it will obviously be local, and not on a college level, what is a waste of time, and why? I don't mind long posts, sometimes I learn more from them because it helps me see another way of looking at it. Of course, then there's Berserker.
                        The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
                        And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
                        Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
                        Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No, no, no, some of the teaching of grammar and logic philosophy is. When so many people are struggling with the basic skills I see these as completely insignificant. They should be completely optional depending on the direction of study the individual wishes to take when possessing a sufficient background. The 3 R's first, and then everything else.
                          Speaking of Erith:

                          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Provost, sorry, I really did two threads here because it's a topic that gets me so ticked. The first concerns the primary and seondary schools. I find grammar something that should be taught no later than eigth grade, and preferably starting in sixth. Some sort of statistics should be required in high school, even if it's only a chapter so they know the difference between an average and a mean, plus what a normalized score is.

                            College is where I see logic, rhetoric, and statistics should be required, as should literature. How can people participate intelligently in a democracy when they don't understand how numbers are being distorted, how they are bombarded all the time with fallacious reasoning, especially during elections, and at least how deductive, and preferably inductive, logic works?

                            I'm not being elitist. Our founding fathers restricted the vote over those issues, though the same arguments were used to deny the rights of the disenfranchised - give them bad schools, require them to pass a voting test, and presto, you've excluded them. I hear people justify voting for either party based on, well, ridiculous reasoning, and it makes me want to puke. DISAGREE with me, but please do it intelligently, instead of based on some vague feeling. The people FELT good about Hitler and Mussolini, at least at first.
                            The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
                            And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
                            Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
                            Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is a popular thing to complain about US education and has been since the 1900. Objective measures show that mid and lower ability schooling is getting better. Gifted and talented schooling has gotten worse in terms of writing. Universities and colleges remain strong. And graduate schools are the world's best.

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