UK Welcomed Pinochet's Bloody 1973 Chilean Coup

[Chilean President™]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Yes, he sucks, but not any more than the capitalist puppets in Haiti, Dominican Republic, Honduras, etc... This is a fact reasonable persons tend to keep in mind, but Americans forget...

totally agree

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Whats the point of remembering Chile, but not Cambodia?

I remember Cambodia and the KR quite well, thank you. As a matter of fact I discussed it with GP some months ago.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So... the smaller countries are doomed to poverty?

When I did say they were 'poor'? They are rich, just not as rich. They have wealth, just not as much wealth.

Jeez, you really have an affinity for strawmen .

Then, you will agree with me that a small country's citizens, if they have the same GDP growth per capita than those of a larger one, just have had the same productivity? That their 'economic' work has allowed them to increase their personal wealth just like the others? That their life is being (probably) just as good?

That, on average, if they have been able to create similar amounts of wealth when compared to their starting point, their economic growth has been similar?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Then, you will agree with me that a small country's citizens, if they have the same GDP growth per capita than those of a larger one, just have had the same productivity?

Productivity is a different measure entirely.

That their life is being (probably) just as good?

On average.

That, on average, if they have been able to create similar amounts of wealth when compared to their starting point, their economic growth has been similar?

Not entirely. Why would their economic growth be anywhere near the same? The starting point, of course, matters, as does what they had (capital-wise) at that starting point. And most importantly the growth of one country could look drastically different than the growth of another with the same GDP/capita, based on histories.

[molly bloom]

The point of this thread is for paiktis to do his best impersonation of Thersites or Timon of Athens and indulge in a bit of childish Brit-bashing. The British ambassador to Chile is the U.K. in the same way that a Greek diplomat in Nigeria is Greece.
Chliean exiles found a safe refuge in Great Britain- I wonder what kind of home they would have found under the Colonels’ chauvinist junta in Greece?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I remember Cambodia and the KR quite well, thank you. As a matter of fact I discussed it with GP some months ago.

So then you are able to put these things in the context they belong in, that of the Cold War. Not everyone is able or willing to do so.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Then, you will agree with me that a small country's citizens, if they have the same GDP growth per capita than those of a larger one, just have had the same productivity?

Productivity is a different measure entirely.

That their life is being (probably) just as good?

On average.

That, on average, if they have been able to create similar amounts of wealth when compared to their starting point, their economic growth has been similar?

Not entirely. Why would their economic growth be anywhere near the same? The starting point, of course, matters, as does what they had (capital-wise) at that starting point. And most importantly the growth of one country could look drastically different than the growth of another with the same GDP/capita, based on histories.

Of course, I let myself write a bit too fast here and didn't consider everything. But yet... just admit that Quebec's welfare has not prevented its citizens from creating an amount of wealth comparable to the citizens in Ontario, which was richer in the beginning and where taxes were constantly lower. I am not defending welfare or taxation at all costs. I am simply criticizing the right's tendency to claim 'economic' freedom is the only way to go, while in fact many countries with proportionally larger states have had good growth combined with less poverty, and better access to healthcare and education. One has to admit this if he has to discuss politics.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I am simply criticizing the right's tendency to claim 'economic' freedom is the only way to go, while in fact many countries with proportionally larger states have had good growth combined with less poverty, and better access to healthcare and education.

Well 'economic freedom' is also a moral decision. And those advanced countries with less market regulations tend to have better growth rates than similar advanced countries (ie, comparing US with France), in general.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Well 'economic freedom' is also a moral decision.

Absolutely true. Though I believe it is mostly wrong, even from a moral standpoint. But that's not the point here.

And those advanced countries with less market regulations tend to have better growth rates than similar advanced countries (ie, comparing US with France), in general.

My real problem, in fact, goes to those who sell economic freedom not with Nozick's theories or Locke's definition of property, but by claiming: 'it's the only way we can bring democracy and relieve poverty'- while in fact the best way to do this would be to use the West's economic power to make reasonable, progressist regulations. Quick examples: the Tobin tax, or the lift of patents on some medications for the Third World countries.

The only way someone will ever convince me of the necessity of economic freedom is through rational, highly abstract thinking. Because the facts are not here to support it, seeing what suffering the workers in the West had to go through to achieve some kind of prosperity.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by molly bloom
The point of this thread is for paiktis to do his best impersonation of Thersites or Timon of Athens and indulge in a bit of childish Brit-bashing. The British ambassador to Chile is the U.K. in the same way that a Greek diplomat in Nigeria is Greece.

Always amusing having people interpret me to the best of their convenience. Calling a murderer a murderer is never trolling. Or accessory to murder if you prefer. Small letter difference.

Chliean exiles found a safe refuge in Great Britain

Like Pinochet?

I wonder what kind of home they would have found under the Colonels’ chauvinist junta in Greece?

Don't worry you supported that as well.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW this didn't come out of the blue as the night's veil dropped melancholically upon the land and filled my mind with dark thoughts.

The data was revelied not so many days ago. So it is appropriate, as time frames go.

It is mildly surprising to see it in the open. 30 years are not so long in the grand scheme of things. Only a breath or so more like it.

[KrazyHorse]

Come on, fooker. What about the marbles?

[Bereta_Eder]

Well at least they didn't play cuddle buddie with murderers at this one. Marbles didn't murder anyone as far as I know.

The UK foreign policy stinks to high heaven and nothing's has changed. It's good to remember it. As for brits fighting for their dear Greece, well I will not say anything because I'll burst to tears you know I'm the sentimental type.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by paiktis22

because I'll burst to tears you know I'm the sentimental type.

Drop the 'senti-' and you're about right.

The nonsense about Pinochet is very funny. Is he still in Great Britain, by any chance? The place that gave a safe refuge to exiles from the Colonels' regime in Greece?

British foreign policy can and does change by the way- it's not carved in marble.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Drop the 'senti-' and you're about right.

The nonsense about Pinochet is very funny. Is he still in Great Britain, by any chance? The place that gave a safe refuge to exiles from the Colonels' regime in Greece?

Giving the thumps ups and support to dictators to serve your interests I think somehow anulles that.

British foreign policy can and does change by the way- it's not carved in marble.

It does, with some effort.