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Originally posted by DinoDoc
There's nothing wrong with being compared with Kissinger. He was fairly competent at his job.
So was Eichmann: it is what he was competent at achieving that matters
Anyway, what's wrong with McNamara?
The man has issued so many mea culpas by now- in short, he continued policies in South East Asia which he in his heart believed to be failing (and on the gorund as well). What do you say of a man who continious down a ruinous path even as he knows he is doing it and does little to try to turn around? Ecen if you don't condemn, it is not something to follow.
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
About Kissinger:
US actions in Cambodia during early 1970's were the only reason why Pol Pot got into power in 1975. During the next three years, more than a million people (>20% of the population) got killed under his reign.
Originally posted by GePap
So was Eichmann: it is what he was competent at achieving that matters
That was my point. I still fail to see how being compared to Kissinger is a bad thing.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
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isn't it fubar? and foobar, isn't that a media player?
that said, rumsfeld could learn how to stfu, and maybe let those with more tact/diplomacy tell the french and the germans that they suck, rather than blurting it out in an offensive manner.
Originally posted by shawnmmcc
McNamara, the idiot who put the accountants in charge of the military. The people who replaced the Dupont IMR powder with NATO standard (and cheaper) ball powder to save a few bucks. Resulting in jams in the middle of fire fights, resulting in grunts trying to field strip the damn thing at night in the middle of swamps, resulting in increased casualties (read DEATHS) of aforementioned grunts. Add in stupidities like the F4 without gun armament (because they KNEW missles would replace guns), the Sheridan, ad naseum. While McNamara's DOD did not produce all of the technical screw ups that killed US troops, their glacial reaction and intial denial response contributed substantially to the degree of these foobars.
So you have Rumsfeld, an ex-aviator (at least he served, unlike most of the Bush White House and the current Republican leadership) backing the light infranty division imbeciles in the army. These units have a terrible history, getting chewed up in almost every case they have been deployed in actual war zones. They do poorly against regular infranty, they do poorly against guerillas, they do extremely poorly against any kind of AFV - I repeat, the man is a fool. Though I will grant Ned's comparision to McNamara.
Ned, I suspect we are going to disagree on Rumsfeld on the conduct of the two current conflicts. I see what he did as an irresponsible gamble, you as astute risk taking. Unless he gets stuck trying to apply his doctrine somewhere like North Korea, we'll never know for sure. So I really hope we don't get to find out.
Only certain people consider McNamara as one of the "best and brightest." In military circles the McNamara DOD is often used as an excellent example of how not to win a war. Journalists and writers who have a weak grounding in history, or do not understand military matters, might consider him brilliant. I nor many other people who share the criteria I judge by do not. Note I am not agenda driven here. I detest DOD heads in both a conservative and a liberal administation. My criteria is based on the military realities, versus the agenda of the administation in charge.
You haven't dealt with the other issue I brought up. Cooking the books, reference intelligence. I suspect that is both why I really loathe the man, and compare him to McNamara. Believing your own propaganda has probably killed more grunts than anything short of bad generalship, with cost-cutting/shoddy equipment-logistics running close behind in third. The evidence is quite strong he own special intelligence group, whose name slips my mind, went in and not only ignored, but threatened the professional types in the military and civilian intelligence communities. Rumsfeld is a dangerous man, and the sooner he is out, the better as far as I am concerned.
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln
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