How true is City of God?

[Al B. Sure!]

In rare situations where you have only one guy in control like that, violent crime does tend to cease in the area pretty darn quick. Anyone making trouble gets wasted right away.

yeah but what about all the addicts trying to pay for their addiction? they're the ones who do all the random crime in such a situation.

but it's really that bad down there in Brazil? You'd think there would be some sort of international action to help out Brazillian police and get the kids off the street.

[Jagdtiger]

Originally posted by Ned
Jagdtiger, my wife is from Belo. Is the crime situation there worse that Rio?

Sorry, I've never been to BH. Statistically speaking it's among the top 10 most violent cities in the country. But when we're talking chances of actually catching a stray bullet in the head while you're walking around, the only city worse than Rio is São Paulo.

Originally posted by Albert Speer


yeah but what about all the addicts trying to pay for their addiction? they're the ones who do all the random crime in such a situation.

but it's really that bad down there in Brazil? You'd think there would be some sort of international action to help out Brazillian police and get the kids off the street.

I'm no expert, but I'd say if an individual is making trouble he will be shot. My guess is if somebody starts robbing people to pay for his addiction in that kind of environment then he won't last long. He might try to find some other way to pay for it, like working for the dealers in some fashion, or bumming it off of others. Petty theft might even be permitted, but even in the movie itself there's an indication that you wouldn't want to become a nuisance.

It gets this bad because of public apathy, I guess. "It's just always been this way, so why try to change it if it doesn't affect me personally?". Sort of like that. Generally speaking, people around here are really ignorant regarding their government and things of that sort. I'm sure there are various international organizations trying to help out but you're talking almost half of 175+ million people in this country living below the brazilian poverty line. The police in most cases is just as corrupt as anybody else.

[JohnT]

For a second I was worried that Speer was reading Augustine, but I now see it's just a movie he's referring to.

[Al B. Sure!]

Petty theft might even be permitted, but even in the movie itself there's an indication that you wouldn't want to become a nuisance.

well i understand that. having small-time mugging occuring all the time brings police over which isn't a good thing for dealers. it also probably scares away rich addicts who come from other areas. nevertheless, having so many addicts needing money to pay for their addiction will be a problem and will cause much crime.

It gets this bad because of public apathy, I guess. "It's just always been this way, so why try to change it if it doesn't affect me personally?". Sort of like that

yeah i figured that as we have a similiar problem in american cities which are incredibly violent but not as hellish as the Brazillian city portrayed in the movie. here, our children and teenagers are the most violent and troublesome but they are more of a nuisance and not blood-thirsty criminals like those brazillian children. I know here in philly things were pretty bad during the crack epidemic back in the 80's and early 90's but I don't think even in that worst time american urban crime ever reached such levels.

so why are american cities relatively safer? our police are better? our people have more economic oppurtunities?

[Pekka]

All I know is this: when human lives become that cheap anywhere, it's dangerous and almost calls for marshal law IMO. Roll the tanks.

[Alex]

Yes, the problem exists and it is pretty bad, but is not the same everywhere. In big cities like São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro the situation is worse than in smaller cities like Campo Grande, where I live. Despite the fact that the State where I'm living is considered to be a route for international drug trafficking (mainly because of the border with Paraguay and Bolivia), here in Campo Grande the violence is not so rampant.

Ned: Belo Horizonte, I suppose? The violence there is not that bad as in Rio, far from it, but it certainly exists.

Poverty is the fuel to all violence here. A few people control most of the richness in the country, and they live at large, while a large portion of the population live in extreme poverty. I'm in the middle.

"City of God" is successful in portraying how the link between poverty and drugs and violence developed in Rio in the last decades, but actually the problem originated a long time ago...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Pekka
All I know is this: when human lives become that cheap anywhere, it's dangerous and almost calls for marshal law IMO. Roll the tanks.

Tanks? What about Suzie-Q's?

[Alex]

Originally posted by Pekka
All I know is this: when human lives become that cheap anywhere, it's dangerous and almost calls for marshal law IMO. Roll the tanks.

They've rolled the tanks before, and it didn't work.

There is a deeper root for all this trouble, and it is connected to the very first years of colonization and the how it was done here, in stark contrast to, say, North American colonization.

so why are american cities relatively safer? our police are better? our people have more economic oppurtunities?

it's a big combination of factors, and it is linked in some way to how people perceive law enforcement. Plus, the economic opportunities certainly help.

[Jagdtiger]

Originally posted by Albert Speer


yeah i figured that as we have a similiar problem in american cities which are incredibly violent but not as hellish as the Brazillian city portrayed in the movie. here, our children and teenagers are the most violent and troublesome but they are more of a nuisance and not blood-thirsty criminals like those brazillian children. I know here in philly things were pretty bad during the crack epidemic back in the 80's and early 90's but I don't think even in that worst time american urban crime ever reached such levels.

so why are american cities relatively safer? our police are better? our people have more economic oppurtunities?

Well one thing is you almost always have a clear distinction between the "poor" and "rich" areas. If I recall City of God was just an effort by the gov to take those people away from the urban areas and into a nice safe place where they could resume killing each other in preferably large quantities without disturbing the rest of us "normal" folk.

Another example, the capital, Brasilia, is a nice plane-shaped neatly designed modern city with 500,000 inhabitants surrounded by a bunch of smaller sattelite "bum" towns with a combined population of over 2 million. So in the centre of town you have an environment that greatly resembles an american city(cops on every corner, paved streets, neat and tidy for the most part, etc) and every night in the news you hear about some kid elsewhere got shot for a pair of jeans or a case of beer.

The root of it all is probably lack of some basic things like public awareness and a good education system. I've experienced public schooling in both the US and here, and let me tell you there'd be some type of revolution over there if the two systems were even remotely similar. It's outrageous and yet no one is really upset by it.

If you want a step-by-step guide on how to "take advantage over your fellow man" and "leaving all your problems for the future generations" I suggest reading up on Brazilian history, 1822-1930. Somewhere around the 1860's it stops being sad or revolting and just slips into the realm of absurd comedy.

Oops, I guess that qualifies as a rant...

[Alex]

The funny thing about Brasilia is that everything seems OK at first sight, but the thieves abound behind the walls of the palaces...

[Pekka]

Imran, Nah, we don't want to destroy everything.. I guess it calls for my riot control gear, Walls of Trust etc..

[Jagdtiger]

Originally posted by Alex
The funny thing about Brasilia is that everything seems OK at first sight, but the thieves abound behind the walls of the palaces...

Tell me about it...well at least the thieves are real nice. I actually talked some soccer with the fella who stole my cel phone and watch last month...

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Alex
There is a deeper root for all this trouble, and it is connected to the very first years of colonization and the how it was done here, in stark contrast to, say, North American colonization.

Alex: I'm confussed. How does the colonization of two centuries ago effect current Brazilian economic conditions?

[Al B. Sure!]

well at least the thieves are real nice. I actually talked some soccer with the fella who stole my cel phone and watch last month...

I was once attacked by a group of some 12-15 pre-teenagers. in the struggle (it's hard taking on so many little boys) one of them must've gotten into my pockets and took out my eye glass case (glasses and all) and it got tossed away. after i gave them a couple dollars to get them to stop trying to fight and rob me, they helped me look for my eye glasses and eye glass case but unfortunately, they weren't found (it was 1 am anyway so we couldn't see).

really these young boys need to pick up a basketball or something... do something and stop playing gangster.

[Al B. Sure!]

Oerdin:

I assume the fact that the majority of Brazillians were slaves has something to do with it.