Christmas in non-Christian countries.

[Dinner]

Ok, so Christmas started out as a religious celebration among Christians but over the years the religious intonations have slowly drifted away until now Xmas is little more then a reason to exchange gifts and pig out on lots of food. I leave it up to each reader to decide if this is a good thing or not because I have another issue which I would like to discus.

The http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3345933.stm]BBC[/url] is reporting that in Japan many people celebrate Xmas by exchanging gifts and young couples often use the holiday for a romantic get away or to have a romp at a cheap motel. How does a Christian religious holiday get transferred to a none Christian country? From what I hear Japan is not alone and that Christmas trees are sold in, supposedly Muslim, Turkey while Buddhist Thailand also gets in the swing of things.

My cynical side tells me retailers are just promoting a holiday which helps them sell more junk to consumers. If that's true then the transfer of this holiday would be a prime example of capitalism in action, however, I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. Is some form of Xmas celebrated where you live and what form do the festivities take? I'm especially interested in nonwestern countries which don't have a tradition of marking this holiday.

[Bereta_Eder]

Well they do celebrate something in Turkey at this very same time. I'm not sure what it is. I forgot and wished merry christmas to a turkish friend of mine and he said they did have something in that time frame, a holiday of sorts.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Is it completely out of the question for Muslims to recognize Christmas or Easter? They do consider Jesus a prophet of God (though not the Son of God)

[The Mad Monk]

Urban Ranger has posted about Christams Gifts, etc, so apparently it does happen in Hong Kong.

Oh course, that's a former British colony, so I don't know how that reflects on the rest of China.

[Dinner]

Sorry about this misspelling in the thread's title. Would one of the mods be so kind as to fix it?

[The Viceroy]

In India many Hindu's attend midnight mass at church, and celebrate Christmas with just as much vigour as the Christians, but then, thats what I love about India .. if there is a celebration to be had, go for it .. regardless of religion.

[Thucydides]

Christmas was adapted by Christians from earlier non-Christian sources. To say the holiday is primarily about Christianity is absurd. What do Christmas trees or Santa Claus have anything to do with the Bible? If Christianity never came to be we would still be all celebrating some variation of Christmas, if for no other reason then there is going to always be some holiday to fall on the Winter Solistice since it's such an important point in the calender very few civilizations are going to completely ignore it.

Christmas is probably so popular because it includes so many popular ideas. Who doesn't like the concepts gift giving, peace, spending time with family, peace or celebrating? Commercial retailers of course are going to take advantage of this and thus also fuel the growth of the holiday itself, but it's still primarily a winter solstice holiday.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Sorry about this misspelling in the thread's title. Would one of the mods be so kind as to fix it?

Done. And I remember Christmas in Japan in 1985 - it wasn't as overdone as it is in the US, but exchange of gifts is traditional for Oshogatsu, the three day New Year holiday. The Christmas stuff is a very small part due to the presence of a small, but noticeable Christian community throughout most of Japan, but mostly due to the Japanese fetish for cultural assimilation - the idea of the extended gift giving season is just "cool" and it fits well with the later tradition, plus lots of getaways for ski trips to Nagano, etc.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Thucydides
Christmas was adapted by Christians from earlier non-Christian sources. To say the holiday is primarily about Christianity is absurd. What do Christmas trees or Santa Claus have anything to do with the Bible? If Christianity never came to be we would still be all celebrating some variation of Christmas, if for no other reason then there is going to always be some holiday to fall on the Winter Solistice since it's such an important point in the calender very few civilizations are going to completely ignore it.

Christmas is probably so popular because it includes so many popular ideas. Who doesn't like the concepts gift giving, peace, spending time with family, peace or celebrating? Commercial retailers of course are going to take advantage of this and thus also fuel the growth of the holiday itself, but it's still primarily a winter solstice holiday.

Saint Nicholas is a real historical figure. He was a Chritian bishop in Asia Minor in the Fourth Century AD. He was noted for his anonymous giving to his poor and needy parishoners. It is said that he may have put coins into a sock and tossed it through a window or down a chimney of the household of a recipient of his largess. During this historical time period the legality of Christianiy alternated. One emporer would tolerate it, then the next would outlaw it. IIRC Saint Nicholas was supposedly martyred during one of the periods when Christianity was outlawed.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by The Viceroy
In India many Hindu's attend midnight mass at church, and celebrate Christmas with just as much vigour as the Christians, but then, thats what I love about India .. if there is a celebration to be had, go for it .. regardless of religion.

Have you ever seen the film Lagan ? There is a scene in which the villagers are singing a prayer to Krishna. Everyone gets caught up in it, even the Muslims join in. How likely would it be for an Indian Muslim to join in a prayer to Krishna?

[The Viceroy]

Yes, Lagan is a very well made film.

In India, its actually very likely indeed. We have friends which celebrate Eid, and Diwali together.

Infact, believe it or not, we had 2 Pakistani muslims come to our Diwali party !! Granted, we didn't ask them to offer praises to any gods, but they were more than happy to come and celebrate.

[Thucydides]

Saint Nicholas is a real historical figure. He was a Chritian bishop in Asia Minor in the Fourth Century AD. He was noted for his anonymous giving to his poor and needy parishoners. It is said that he may have put coins into a sock and tossed it through a window or down a chimney of the household of a recipient of his largess. During this historical time period the legality of Christianiy alternated. One emporer would tolerate it, then the next would outlaw it. IIRC Saint Nicholas was supposedly martyred during one of the periods when Christianity was outlawed.

True, their is the kernal of truth to form the basis of Santa Claus from a historical figure, such as a name, red bishop robes and giving gifts (which btw was on december 6 originally, not the 25th) , but it was also filtered through the dutch version of Sint Klaas with all the attached nordic mythology of elves and the north poles and such.

Anyway, I don't mean to imply the Christianity didn't make significant contributions to the development of Christmas, only that it's one of many sources of the holiday, and it didn't start out as a religious celebration among Christians.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Thucydides
it didn't start out as a religious celebration among Christians.

Happy Winter Solstice!

[mindseye]

Here in Shanghai, the most westernized of Chinese metropoli, Christmas is a big thing. Stores and restaurants everywhere have Santas in their windows. You see angels, snowflakes, snowmen, wreaths, all of the trappings, even life-size (and larger) Santas (he's known here as "Old Man Christmas"). But most of all, you see xmas TREES! Chinese love colorful lights, so xmas trees are a natural for them. In one of my classes, half of the students had xmas trees at home.

You hear xmas songs at many large stores, even blatantly Christian songs. Waitresses and store clerks wear red Santa hats. People send cards and messages, but there is not much gift-giving, except maybe between young lovers. It's more of an excuse for Chinese to do the thing they love most - go out to dinner together!

In fact, you get kinda sick of xmas here, as a lot of the decorations (particularly the Santa faces hung on doorways) end up staying there all year round. Santa's face becomes sort of a festive counterpart to that other smiling old man's face you see everywhere, Colonel Sanders.

[Drake Tungsten]

is reporting that in Japan many people celebrate Xmas by exchanging gifts and young couples often use the holiday for a romantic get away or to have a romp at a cheap motel.

From what I've seen, Christmas Eve is the bigger day here, as it is a night for couples to be together and for single people to hook up, as the article said. Christmas Day seems pretty low key; some of my coworkers are giving their kids a present, but that's about it.

BTW, Santa Claus apparently speaks English here in Japan, as one of my coworkers had me write a short message to her kids from Santa in English, even though the kids have no hope of understanding it. I guess Santa can't get a handle on this damn language either...