Judge: I saw police commit felonies (Miami protests)

[Lars-E]

I was watching channel 7 during the riots. I was shocked by all the bias from the reporters against the demonstrators.

[GePap]

I don;t get the comments here- if the police overstepped their bounds and committed croimes, they must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law-
The police are in charge of keeping the law-criminality on their part is WORSE than from citizens (specially given that no one here who badmouths the protestors has whon anything to prove they were being violent) given that it does far more damage to the system.

Sad that most opf the comments on this thread have been so dismissive- perfect way to undermine democracy- by letting the state violate people's rights just cause you decide they are "loons".

[debeest]

Here's my own experience at a demonstration against the U.S.-induced Honduran bombing of Nicaragua back around 1986: the police said "alright, everyone out of this area we've encircled, and we're going to arrest everyone who doesn't leave," so I left the area, and then a cop came up behind me and grabbed me and threw me through the line of linked-hands police officers into the arrest area. I was arrested, spent the afternoon at the jail, and then all of us were released because there had been no basis for the arrests in the first place.

I didn't need a permit, and I followed police orders completely. I violated no law except the law that "thou shalt not voice thy opinion in front of the police."

Many of my friends and acquaintances have participated in many different demonstrations over the years, specifically including the WTO demonstrations that have been labeled "violent" "riots." What these knowledgeable and honest people have told me is that consistently, the police initiate almost all of the violence, usually with no provocation and no legal basis for it.

Now the police have developed the habit of singling out those who bring video equipment, beating them, and stealing or destroying their equipment. Do the police do this because the people recording police behavior are committing criminal acts, or because the police are committing criminal acts they don't want recorded?

[Q Classic]

more power to the police. ming and ur are loons anyhow.

[Ned]

debeest, I think that you did not understand the police order since you were obviously very close to the police lines.

I also think the general order is to disperse because the demonstration is illegal. What I have seen is cops and crowds of demonstrators confronting one another. What the demonstrators are doing is clearly illegal.

[debeest]

Ned, you seem to assume that I'm stupid. Please don't insult my intelligence just because you have no basis for argument. The police order was very clear and explicit: "Those who remain inside this police circle will be arrested. If you don't want to be arrested, step outside the circle." I stepped out of the circle and was at least ten feet away from it (and it couldn't have been any clearer where "in" and "out" were). This cop had to grab me and forcibly drag me over to the circle and, quite literally, throw me THROUGH the linked arms of his colleagues into the circle.

The order was not to "disperse." Why act as if you know what happened to me? You weren't there, I don't think. The order was specifically directed at restoring access through the main doors of the Federal Building in San Francisco, not at making us go away. There was nothing illegal about the demonstration. Why are you assuming that the demonstration was illegal? Do you think all demonstrations are automatically illegal? Are you unaware that demonstrating is a right guaranteed by the Constitution? The police didn't even suggest that the demonstration was illegal, only the blocking of doors, and I was 100 feet away from the doors.

What makes you think that every time cops and demonstrators are face to face the demonstrators are doing something illegal? At the Port of Oakland about a year ago, with no provocation whatsoever, the police started shooting not only demonstrators, but longshore workers simply going to work, and bystanders. It got extensive coverage in the Oakland Tribune, the San Francisco Chronicle, the San Jose Mercury, and surely many other papers. It's not only my own acquaintances who document this stuff, sometimes even the media cover it (and I assure you these are not wild radical newspapers).

How much time have you spent at demonstrations observing the behavior of the demonstrators and the police?

[Dinner]

If this judge was taking part in the protests then he is an interested party and shouldn't be hearing the case. He's valuable as a witness but proffessionally he should be seporated from it.

[Boris Godunov]

The NYC police pulled the same crap at the anti-war protests here. I was on the cell phone with a friend who was at the demonstrations (a Republican, btw, who wasn't protesting) as a policeman tried to crush him and his friends with his horse. And in NYC, the protestors weren't breaking any laws or behaving badly. It was really a peaceful, organized gathering. But the police were dicks.

[Tripledoc]

FTAA

MAD

AFL-CIO

Isn't excessive acrynomization a sign of increasing militarism?

[Japher]

Joke:

President Bush was trying to decide which organization to send out to hunt down Osama Bin Laden. He gathered the CIA, the FBI, and the NYPD and realeased a rabbit into the wood.

The FBI went first, after days of searching they produced a shoe and what looked to be white lint, but no rabbit.

The CIA went next and slashed and burned the entire forest, but no rabbit was produced.

The NYPD entered the woods, and 2 hours later emerged with a bear all beaten and bludgeoned.

Bush asked, "What is this?!"

The Bear replied, "I'm a rabbit."

[GePap]

I am always amazed how people are willing to utterly ignore the right to protest if the people don;t happen to be protesting what they support- it seems so much easier than ignoring the right of speech, given that so much more goes into protests and you can always take the line that you are a lazy bastard who would never get of his butt to actually protest, so let the cops do whatever they want to people.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ned
Sava, does it make any difference to you that the anarchists did not have a permit and did not obey lawful orders of the police?

I didn't realize the first amendment required a permit...

I can send you the audio tape of journalists getting shot by the riot police... as described on the tape... the police were converging on the journalists from 4 sides, each side telling them to go to the other side... trapped, and nowhere to go, the police started firing rubber bullets on UNARMED JOURNALISTS WHO WERE TRYING TO REPORT THE ****ING NEWS

DON"T GIVE ME YOUR BULL **** NED! YOU WEEREn"T THERE AND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW YOU HEARD ON THE NAZI TV NETOWRK FOX NEWS

GET A CLUE!

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Ned
debeest, I think that you did not understand the police order since you were obviously very close to the police lines.

I also think the general order is to disperse because the demonstration is illegal. What I have seen is cops and crowds of demonstrators confronting one another. What the demonstrators are doing is clearly illegal.

Do you remember the civil rights marches from the 60s? You remember Martin Luther King Jr.? Selma and Birmingham, and all the others. The situation was no different there. The police were merely dispersing illegal demonstrators. When these demonstrators choose to disobey a direct and lawful order to dispurse then it was the officer's right to dispurse them by whatever means they had at their disposal. After all, it was the demonstrators who broke the law. No doubt many of these civil rights demonstrators 'resisted arrest' too, and deserved a few swift wacks with a club. And since the officers were outnumbered, it is just a matter of protecting their own safety that they turned the firehoses on the demonstrators.

But the damn ***** liberals from the 60s did not support Bull Connor and now we have this mess where any American thinks he can just walk down the street to express their views. What a world this has become. We need a lot more Bull Connors, and a lot less wussy reporters and judges being 'outraged' about excessive force. The police are only enforcing the law afterall.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by debeest
Here's my own experience at a demonstration against the U.S.-induced Honduran bombing of Nicaragua back around 1986: the police said "alright, everyone out of this area we've encircled, and we're going to arrest everyone who doesn't leave," so I left the area, and then a cop came up behind me and grabbed me and threw me through the line of linked-hands police officers into the arrest area. I was arrested, spent the afternoon at the jail, and then all of us were released because there had been no basis for the arrests in the first place.

I didn't need a permit, and I followed police orders completely. I violated no law except the law that "thou shalt not voice thy opinion in front of the police."

Thats exactly what happened here in DC. I forget which protest it was from (we've got so many) the protesters gathered in, I think it was Freedom Plaza (ironic, eh?) and from what I hear they weren't even protesting really. They were just sitting around, beating drums, resting, etc. The police encircled the park on all sides, issues the order to dispurse that anyone remaining in the park will be arrested, then anyone trying to leave was forced back into the park. A few hundred people were arrested.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
Yeah, it must have been a reaction from the WTO protests in Seattle where the protesters trained for months for a battle and then did a few million in damages to independent business store fronts - just because the could. They are such wonderful, peace loving people, why would the police want to do a Chicago 1968 on them??? Makes you just wonder...

I thought you were innocent until found guilty. Nothing has been destroyed except protesters' rights here.

Trial on the street by the police itself? Sounds like a new kind of justice to me. Be proud of your country, dude.