France bans religious symbols in schools and hospitals.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22
They can't see their ears.

I dont see what the big deal is. if they dont take it off then u can't examine their ears. ppl have a right to refuse examination still in france right?

or has that been removed?

[Bereta_Eder]

it was a joke yavoon

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by paiktis22
But really in the matter of: Muslims want to have their oppresive aspects of their culture entered into French law?

I have heard of demands about separate swimming pools for men and women, and demands that female patients can only be examined by female doctors.

In both cases, it is a strict, clear, and non-compromisable no-no for me

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I have heard of demands about separate swimming pools for men and women, and demands that female patients can only be examined by female doctors.

In both cases, it is a strict, clear, and non-compromisable no-no for me

I agree. and none of that hsa to do w/ clothing.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
I agree. and none of that hsa to do w/ clothing.

What when Schools are asked to "accomodate" their programs (notably in chemics and sports) so that the scarved girls don't have to get rid of the scarf? That's exactly the same.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What when Schools are asked to "accomodate" their programs (notably in chemics and sports) so that the scarved girls don't have to get rid of the scarf? That's exactly the same.

I agree, they should not be accomodated. but that doesn't mean that it should be banned from everywhere.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But really in the matter of: Muslims want to have their oppresive aspects of their culture entered into French law?

But that has nothing to do with the headscarf.

What when Schools are asked to "accomodate" their programs (notably in chemics and sports) so that the scarved girls don't have to get rid of the scarf? That's exactly the same.

No it isn't. You just make them take off the scarf for those activities.

Though when I was in high school, the really Muslim women wore their headscarfs DURING gym. They just tucked the other part into their shirts and had no problem at all.

[DAVOUT]

When a person enter an hospital for care, he/she falls under the responsibility of the doctors of this hospital. If he/she refuses to be examined or to leave their clothes, which in most cases makes the examination impossible, what must the doctor do ? He has no right to reject the malad, and he has not a notary near him to record the situation. Calling the police is not in the spirit of the hospital, and disturbn heavily the normal life of the medics. It seems reasonable to clear the point that any person coming to the hospital should accept its rules. Worth to mention that this point never made problem before, and was raised recently when it reached an excessively disturbing point. Doctors are particularly worried by their responsibility.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If they refused to be examined or refuse to leave their clothes, which in most cases make the exmination impossible, what the doctor must do ?

And how does this law stop that? What if a woman enters a hospital but refuses to take off her headscarf. This law changes nothing on that.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
When a person enter an hospital for care, he/she fall under the esponsibility of the doctors of this hospital. If they refused to be examined or refuse to leave their clothes, which in most cases make the exmination impossible, what the doctor must do ? He has no right to reject the malad, and he has not a notary near him to record the situation. Calling the police is not in the spirit of the hospital, and disturb heavily the normal life of the medics. It seems reasonable to clear the point that any person coming to the hospital should accept its rules. Worth to mention that this point never made problem before, and was raised recemtly when it reached an excessively disturbing point. Doctors are particularly worried by their responsibility.

I would simply have the doctors do what the patient let them do and not more. but certainly if u were really rabid about it u could say if you are unwilling to allow the doctors to work then u must leave the hospital.

as for "recording it" u could simply have them sign some standard document of their refusal of help. its not really that difficult.

[Whaleboy]

Stupid idea. Free expression and individuality. What next? Ban names of religious origin? Wear a uniform in public? Idiocy, mindless idiocy, coupled with a fear of the unknown .

[Mazarin]

Originally posted by yavoon


I completely agree, all those ppl should be arrested.

but I dont agree that u should remove freedoms of other ppl. removing everyone's freedoms is an extreme reaction, done so out of survival instinct of those in power. I don't believe this is the case and that mere vigilance and criminal laws is all that is warranted.

But what does the scarf stand for? Many muslims today say, that the scarf is no longer required to be worn as it reflects outdated laws taken into the Koran. The use of the headscarf has been dramatically on the rise in the last century -either in countries with newly islamistic governments or among communities that supported extreme interpretations of the koran (including oppression of women/taking the law in one's hands/etc.)
this way, the headscarf has also become a political statement that clearly objects the values of our societies: taking these out of schools (haven't seen the hospital proposal either) seems like a not that bad idea to me. If an extreme ideology is mantled into religion -shall we accept their signs in schools?

[Bereta_Eder]

You know all this reminded me of that movie with Gerard Departiue (sp)? What was its name? Where he goes to a school with lots of problems?

Mais pour qu'il se prend ce galois? Pour Clint Eastwood?

Poor departiue

[Whaleboy]

Mazarin: Whatever the reasons for the individual, as far as the society is concerned its still a matter of individual choice. And so what if it does represent a subversive idea (and I question your logic that it does)? We all have to agree with the government? We all have to show or give lip service to the man in charge? I think not.

I would wear whatever I want regardless of such a ban, as an expression of my individuality above all, and as far as the it stands to society, that is what would be attacked.

[Bereta_Eder]

where the principal of the school had a nervous breakdown? and all were trying to be nice to him hiding all the problems?

I think there was the question of the head scarve there too BTW, that's how I rememebred it.