Labor Rights in Iraq Redux

[GePap]

A strike is an organized political act-which, if what one claims to which to create is democracy, is a good thing, since these sorts of political actions are the bread abd butter of democracy. What anti-union people are syaing here is: dmeocracy in Iraq can wait until they get a dmemocracy! How would that work?

[Ramo]

It is greatly more difficult.

No, it'd be easier. Employed, fed Iraqis mean Iraqis that won't turn to the Arab nationalist or Islamist resistances who are trying to destroy the infrastructure.

Are they a good thing if they paralyze a nascent government which hasn't even been established, all the while terrorist groups are making things sticky in the boonies? I don't think so.

Workers' welfare can wait.

What do you think is fueling the manpower of terrorists and other militants? In large part, it's unemployment. You've got a similar dynamic in West Bank/Gaza with unemployment at extremely high levels.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I work for Vistakon, the most profitable division of Johnson & Johnson. We made $1.4 billion in profits last year. Since I've been working here, the company has laid of hundreds of employees. Just because you are making a profit doesn't mean you can't make more of one.

Let's quote the second part of what the person said:

In America when a company lays people off, there's unemployment insurance, and they won't die from hunger. If I dismiss employees now, I'm killing them and their families.

HE DOESN'T WANT to lay off anyone, but has to. This indicates that the company is unprofitable without government help.

A strike is an organized political act-which, if what one claims to which to create is democracy, is a good thing, since these sorts of political actions are the bread abd butter of democracy. What anti-union people are syaing here is: dmeocracy in Iraq can wait until they get a dmemocracy! How would that work?

Or rather, popular protest acts can wait until a democratic government is in put in place. Then do it to your heart's content. Until then, put a lid on it for a little bit so we can get stuff working.

[GePap]

I wonder-did the occupation governments of Germany ban unions? What about in Japan? I am sure both those states had anti-union laws: I wonder when they were ended?

[Ramo]

HE DOESN'T WANT to lay off anyone, but has to. This indicates that the company is unprofitable without government help.

j

Or he'll be ordered to by the new owners. It's not like the managers will take up ownership of businesses.

Or rather, popular protest acts can wait until a democratic government is in put in place. Then do it to your heart's content. Until then, put a lid on it for a little bit so we can get stuff working.

There won't be a democratic gov't unless the society is built on democracy, namely unions.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Or rather, popular protest acts can wait until a democratic government is in put in place. Then do it to your heart's content. Until then, put a lid on it for a little bit so we can get stuff working.

Oh, so you mean all those demonstrations LoTM always starts post about should have been cracked down with? I mean, they were popualr protest of one sort or another. Or those huge Shia rallies-obviously the US should have gone in shooting! And all those rallies by Sadr..subversionists!

If you say all rallies should be banned for the sakes of security, next time LoTM brings up some rally about protesting violence, make sure to chime in and denounce those bastards undermining order and helping the terrorists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, it'd be easier. Employed, fed Iraqis mean Iraqis that won't turn to the Arab nationalist or Islamist resistances who are trying to destroy the infrastructure.

You assume they'd be employed (and not just scabs would be hired). Second, strikers who disrupt the business have much more of a bad impact on infrastructure building.

What do you think is fueling the manpower of terrorists and other militants? In large part, it's unemployment.

Unemployment doesn't lead to terrorism in other states. The ideology of radical Islam leads to it. Btw, many rich, wealthy people turned to terrorism as well (if you forgot who's on top of Al Queda).

[Ramo]

I wonder-did the occupation governments of Germany ban unions? What about in Japan? I am sure both those states had anti-union laws: I wonder when they were ended?

Absolutely not. I'm not sure about Germany, but unions were actively fostered in Japan. These were New Dealers that ran the occupation gov't's. It was only later , the mid-50's IIRC, that anti-union laws were created .

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ramo


No, it'd be easier. Employed, fed Iraqis mean Iraqis that won't turn to the Arab nationalist or Islamist resistances who are trying to destroy the infrastructure.



What do you think is fueling the manpower of terrorists and other militants? In large part, it's unemployment. You've got a similar dynamic in West Bank/Gaza with unemployment at extremely high levels.

Those people need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I work for Vistakon, the most profitable division of Johnson & Johnson. We made $1.4 billion in profits last year. Since I've been working here, the company has laid of hundreds of employees. Just because you are making a profit doesn't mean you can't make more of one.

Let's quote the second part of what the person said:

In America when a company lays people off, there's unemployment insurance, and they won't die from hunger. If I dismiss employees now, I'm killing them and their families.

HE DOESN'T WANT to lay off anyone, but has to. This indicates that the company is unprofitable without government help.

You are assuming, Imran. It may be the case that you are correct, but you do not know that. It may be that the manager simply knows he has 1500 more employees than he really needs to get the job done. If the company is privatised the owners will demand that extra workers be gotten rid of, not because they are going bankrupt, but because those 1500 salaries could be profit instead. The profit of the owner is moer important than the lives of the workers and their families.

Now, as to your assumption that the company needs government help . . . this is an oil company, in Iraq, where vast majority of government revenue comes from oil. The oil operations in Iraq subsidize the government, not the other way around.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, so you mean all those demonstrations LoTM always starts post about should have been cracked down with? I mean, they were popualr protest of one sort or another. Or those huge Shia rallies-obviously the US should have gone in shooting! And all those rallies by Sadr..subversionists!

If you say all rallies should be banned for the sakes of security, next time LoTM brings up some rally about protesting violence, make sure to chime in and denounce those bastards undermining order and helping the terrorists.

Rallies pro-state and rallies which are anti-state are two different animals and you know that . I did say popular PROTEST acts, by which I meant against the state, especially those with the propensity to turn violent against the police there.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ramo


Absolutely not. I'm not sure about Germany, but unions were actively fostered in Japan. These were New Dealers that ran the occupation gov't's. It was only later , the mid-50's IIRC, that anti-union laws were created .

Hitler took control of the unions just like he did everything else.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Now, as to your assumption that the company needs government help . . . this is an oil company, in Iraq, where vast majority of government revenue comes from oil. The oil operations in Iraq subsidize the government, not the other way around.

It is one oil refinery in a country with many of these refineries. Set them all loose, and I'm sure some of them may be clamoring for government help.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Hitler took control of the unions just like he did everything else.

He's talking about after the war

[chequita guevara]

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't seem to be much of a problem for Norway.