Iconoclastic Wars

[Bereta_Eder]

I know nothing about them except they happened.
Enlighten me. I'm going to bed. I expect a wiiiiiide array of credible information to wait for me tomorrow as is the grand tradition of 'poly/

[Bereta_Eder]

religious types for once welcomed

Make yourselves useful for once

[Japher]

don't know what you are talking about, but I like your avatar

[flash9286]

is where people starting worshping idols of jesus?

[Japher]

when did they start worshipping idols of Mary? Amongst all the other saints those crazy catholics tend to worship in leiu of ignoring their comandments...

[Patroklos]

Excactly, I don't know why we don't equate our faith to late night TV gospel shows like the rest of the Christians. I guess we are behind the times.

-Pat

[Fake Boris]

I have some very basic knowledge I can try to share.

Basically, some Catholics disagreed with the idea that Jesus could be represented in a material form (this might extend to other religious figures such as the Virgin Mary).
In fact, iconoclast means "image breaker".

Others thought painting religious scenes was the best way to spread Christianism, since the masses were illiterate.

I think the conflict arose around the 5th or 6th century AD between the Roman Catholics (most barbaric tribes that had settled in Rome's former territory had been converted) and the Byzantines. The latter formed what we now know as the "Orthodox Church".

A quick wikipedia check would probably give you the basics.

[Patroklos]

It was more of a civil war between factions within the Byzantine Empire itself.

-Pat

[Seeker]

It was a good excuse for first Arabs and then Turks (in cahoots with restive subject populations) to beat on the Romans/Byzantine Greeks/misc Orthodox.

The idea is that the Orthodox are worshipping 'idols' by making and venerating religious icons, and the Islamics are 'icono-clasts' icon smashers.

[Heresson]

I'll explain it later, have no time right now.

[Jamski]

The iconoclastic wars were a series of civil wars in the mid-period Byzantine Empire. Iconoclasts were against the use of images in church, and destroyed much ancient art. They were supported by the army (at the time) and the imperial family.

HOWEVER, as typical for byzantoine history, it wasn't just about pictures. The wars between iconoclasts and iconodules (the ones that liked pictures) were really fights for control of the empire, the church and the army.

Luckily for us, many of the pictures intended to be destroyed wer simply painted over, and restored later (then painted over again... then restored again...) as the tendencies of the ruling emperor and his supporters dictated.

That's it in BRIEF.

Basically the Iconoclasts came from the Asian part of the Empire, and the Iconodules from mainland Greece. But it was extremely complicated.

I can tell you more on request, its somethng of a hobby.

-Jam

[TheStinger]

Sounds like a typicaly stupid religious war.

[Bereta_Eder]

Thanks

What did the Iconoclasts wanted then? (on religious terms). Since Icons AFAIK aren't worshipped they are merely a "transport" of worship to what they iconise.
Did the Iconoclasts wanted not to have any tangible representation of the saints and trinity?

[Bereta_Eder]

And if the Iconoclasts had the support of the army and the imperial family how come they didn't win? (since apparently they didn't)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

IIRC, the Iconoclasts were responding in part to the incredible military success of that new religion on the block, Islam. The astonishing, rapid, violent success of Islamic warriors caused some Byzantines to reason that God must be mad at them for something; since one of the most notable differences between Islam and Christianity at that point was that Islam forbade religious imagery, the Iconoclasts got it into their heads that they could square things with God if they, too, rejected images. The resulting damage to religious art was often far worse that the damage wrought by Muslims later; in the Hagia Sofia, for example, the Ottomans merely plastered over the mosaics, while the Iconoclasts actually tore them out.