Kansas ACLU - Whoopie

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

It's time for a proletariot revolution to topple this immoral and corrupt Kansas ACLU.

There is no proletariat in Kansas, with the possible exception of Wichita.

Well maybe not, but surely there is enough of one to topple the Kansas chaper of the ACLU.

[Drake Tungsten]

True enough.

[orange]

What's the difference...there is ZERO factual evidence to show that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th, and he sure as hell wasn't born in the year "0" Sorry, but it doesn't belong in a school. Plain and simple.

[Drake Tungsten]

Sorry, but it doesn't belong in a school. Plain and simple.

So you're supportive of this attempt to excise any discussion of the biggest holiday of the year from schools?

[orange]

no, not at all. But why does a Santa need to come in and talk about the reason we celebrate Christmas? If you want to have a discussion about the origins of Christmas, you can start with the pagan festival of Yule and then talk about the Roman's incorporation of Christianity and its hijack of that holiday to represent the birth of Christ. If you want them to learn the version of Christmas where Jesus was born in a manger and three kings came and the star led them to the spot blah blah blah you can teach it in a church, a private school, or the home.

[Berzerker]

I agree Jesus probably wasn't born on Dec 25th, highly unlikely in fact, say 1/365 chance without even considering Jewish practices concerning cleanliness, i.e., the proper time of the year to conceive, which also lead us away from a December birth, but nonetheless, it is the day adopted for the celebration. And since we don't know what day he was born, any day is as good as another, especially considering other traditions of the time, 3 days after the winter solstice makes as much sense as any other day. But to say "it" doesn't even belong in school is going too far, after all, the kids are getting 2 weeks off because of "it".

[Berzerker]

But why does a Santa need to come in and talk about the reason we celebrate Christmas?

Because the school seemingly can't? Seriously, what's the big deal? A local minister hands out gifts dressed as Santa and people object to him asking why Christmas is observed but not that he's handing out gifts dressed as Santa?

If you want to have a discussion about the origins of Christmas, you can start with the pagan festival of Yule and then talk about the Roman's incorporation of Christianity and its hijack of that holiday to represent the birth of Christ. If you want them to learn the version of Christmas where Jesus was born in a manger and three kings came and the star led them to the spot blah blah blah you can teach it in a church, a private school, or the home.

So schools shouldn't teach the origins of the various main religions? That leaves a pretty big gap in their educations... Of course mysticism will be part of such a discussion, many religions have their origins shrouded in mystery or miracles, that doesn't mean children can't still learn about them.

[Drake Tungsten]

But why does a Santa need to come in and talk about the reason we celebrate Christmas?

To teach the kids about a major holiday?

Besides, in this case Santa was there to hand out presents, not to teach the kids anything, so I don't see what the big deal is.

If you want to have a discussion about the origins of Christmas, you can start with the pagan festival of Yule and then talk about the Roman's incorporation of Christianity and its hijack of that holiday to represent the birth of Christ.

You really think elementary school kids are going to understand that?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by orange
no, not at all. But why does a Santa need to come in and talk about the reason we celebrate Christmas? If you want to have a discussion about the origins of Christmas, you can start with the pagan festival of Yule and then talk about the Roman's incorporation of Christianity and its hijack of that holiday to represent the birth of Christ. If you want them to learn the version of Christmas where Jesus was born in a manger and three kings came and the star led them to the spot blah blah blah you can teach it in a church, a private school, or the home.

This loses sight that Christmas is essentially a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, doesn't it?

[orange]

And since we don't know what day he was born, any day is as good as another, especially considering other traditions of the time, 3 days after the winter solstice makes as much sense as any other day. But to say "it" doesn't even belong in school is going too far, after all, the kids are getting 2 weeks off because of "it".

Kids are not getting 2 weeks off to celebrate the birth of Christ. If it was truly about that, they'd be getting off for the few days surrounding it and that's it. Why two weeks - because it's a part of Western Culture. The winter holiday, while dressed up as a time of religious worship, is really just an age old tradition that got dolled up by the Church to be acceptable and to discourage the drunken orgies that used to accompany this time period.

Because the school seemingly can't? Seriously, what's the big deal? A local minister hands out gifts dressed as Santa and people object to him asking why Christmas is observed but not that he's handing out gifts dressed as Santa?

The school shouldn't be able to project a holiday or a religion onto the children, no. A local *minister* coming in to a public school asking children about the celebration of Christmas is not necessary in a school environment. Further, it marginalizes those children who are not religious, or Christian, and don't celeberate Christmas.

What I find ever more ironic is that the minister dresses up as SANTA CLAUS to talk about the TRUE meaning of Christmas. Give me a break.

So schools shouldn't teach the origins of the various main religions? That leaves a pretty big gap in their educations... Of course mysticism will be part of such a discussion, many religions have their origins shrouded in mystery or miracles, that doesn't mean children can't still learn about them.

They should. But if they're going to do it, they should do it factually. That's kinda what a school is for, or so I'm told.

You really think elementary school kids are going to understand that?

Well instead we should lie to them about Santa Claus giving presents to everyone in the world, Jesus being born in a manger on Dec. 25th in the year 0, and Christianity being the accepted religion of the nation as evidenced by public schools. Muucccch better

This loses sight that Christmas is essentially a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, doesn't it?

Well of course, that's what it is ideally. But what is it really? Modern commercialism with strong roots in paganism. The main point is that there is no reason that Santa Claus should be speaking on any religion - he's not a figure representative of Jesus Christ's birth, he's a modern invention and bastardization of the St. Nicholas of lore. If he wants to be in a school handing our presents - fine. He can leave religion at the door.

[MrFun]

God -- where's SlowwHand when I need him -- he and I would probably be in complete agreement over this bullsh*t.

[orange]

you're becoming more conservative by the day, MrFun

[MrFun]

NOOOOOOOO

[orange]

does this mean you'll turn straight??

[MrFun]

Gay conservatives are not an oxymoron -- look at the Log Cabin Republicans.