the cato institute explains why young people should be pissed off

[chequita guevara]

Yes, it is simplisitic, and not completely accurate, but it's not meant to be a history lesson, but an allagory. In fact, I didn't even intend for it to be semi-historical at first.

Let me put it differently then.

I worked at a company as a sysadmin. Very few people knew what I did. I kept their system running. I was so good at it that there were no problems. They began to wonder why they needed a sysadmin when they never had any problems. So they laid me off. Can you guess what happened?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't suppose any of you remember what life was like for seniors before social security was instituted. Of course you don't, because with very few exceptions, no of us were alive then. At that time, the single largest group of poor people were the elderly. SS is one of the most successful programs in history in ending poverty.

What the hell is wrong with conservatives!?! If something doesn't work, you want to get rid of it. If something works, you want to get rid of it.

Yep. The only exception to the second statement is the policy of getting rid of stuff, which is the only one that I don't want to get rid of.

[chequita guevara]

My point is, programs that work real well, often seem like a waste, because they've fixed the problem that created their necessity. But the only reason the problem has gone away is because it is actively being fixed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Let me put it differently then.

That's better (well as an alagory) .

[David Floyd]

Wow, this thread is just calling out to me...nah, I'll resist for now.

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How would you describe a pension plan that is consistently out performed in its rate of return by virtually every other plan imanginable? Would you put your money into it if you were at all interested in providing for your retirement?

The point of Social security is not to make one rich, or to create furhter capital, but to insure a steady income. Pehraps the fact that there is less capital to invest (and to use in bubbles) has made the downturns from previous highs in the stock-market more moderate- you forget the cirscumantance under which this system was created-hardly anyone in 1935 was going to be talking about the great perfomance of the markets, and theyn could not if you looked at them historically: only after SS and a bunch of government regulation have there been no serious collapses in the system.

Simple changes to SS, including the most obviosu two, income limits and raising the retirement age would extend th system by decades.

And do stay out DF.

[David Floyd]

Simple changes to SS, including the most obviosu two, income limits and raising the retirement age would extend th system by decades.

Yeah, but eliminating it would be better. I already pay into an IRA, for example - I see no reason why I should be double taxed. If I feel like giving to the poor, I'll goddamn well do it on my own. If no one feels like giving to the poor, well, then I guess some people will just have to starve - but it's their own fault for not planning ahead. Sorry.

[GePap]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Yeah, but eliminating it would be better. I already pay into an IRA, for example - I see no reason why I should be double taxed. If I feel like giving to the poor, I'll goddamn well do it on my own. If no one feels like giving to the poor, well, then I guess some people will just have to starve - but it's their own fault for not planning ahead. Sorry.

My sole response to you is this: I know everything you have to say. I think its wrong. I won't waste my time.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I already pay into an IRA, for example - I see no reason why I should be double taxed.

Since when are IRA accounts taxed?

[David Floyd]

MrFun,

Excuse me. I see no reason I should pay twice, with one of those times being for a program I don't want and won't get anything out of anyway.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


They did better than what has followed them. Socialist countries, for all their faults. Didn't have old people picking through garbage dumps like they have in Russia.

edit: typo

No doubt Che. Socialist countries have very good intentions and are somewhat good at execution.

Except that capitalist system with social welfare systems are better than socialist nations because capitalist systems can and do deliver every increasing productivity making the welfare system affordable.

Actually, I think this is one of the reasons China has converted.

Compare the ever decreasing standard of living and welfare in Cuba.

[MrFun]

Ok -- I know what you mean. I'm angry that I'm paying for Social Security that I'm not going to be getting by the time I retire, too.

An IRA account is much more reliable when you know what you're doing.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MrFun
Ok -- I know what you mean. I'm angry that I'm paying for Social Security that I'm not going to be getting by the time I retire, too.

An IRA account is much more reliable when you know what you're doing.

Mr.Fun, if we can increase the productivity of our economy, we can maintain and even increase social security benefits even with a declining population.

[Boris Godunov]

SS's insolvency is greatly overplayed by its opponents. Rest assured, we will all be getting SS checks when we retire, barring the complete collapse of the U.S.

[Imran Siddiqui]

SS's insolvency is greatly overplayed by its opponents. Rest assured, we will all be getting SS checks when we retire, barring the complete collapse of the U.S.

Yeah, I mean we don't mind going into debt now, why would we care about dipping into the budget to pay SS checks for the baby boomers? It makes no sense to say that the government will just let SS die.

It ain't self-contained now, so why would it be in the future.