Rugby - The Lull After The Storm

[Havak]

Sky Sports are showing our European home game with Gwent Dragons this Sunday (2:30pm GMT), our League away game with Northampton Saints on 20th December (2:45pm GMT) and the away game in Ulster on 11th Jan at mid-day.

Surely some Fox Affiliate is showing something?

[Caligastia]

Well, the channel I watch rugby on is Fox Sport World. They show Sky Sports News, so I could watch highlights, but that's not really what I'm after.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


For your sake I hope not. The old mutt was quite nuts.

Q.E.D.

It seems the NZRFU is concerned at how much off field power Mitchell invested in himself by dismissing the previous fellow who held this post? It sounds a useful balancing measure.

But who allowed Mitchell all that rope?

The coincidences continue! The Iron Duke got off there, demobilised and headed homeward after forcing Marshal Soualts withdrawal.

The coincidence continues! When Mrs finbar got off the barge, she demobilised a couple of crates of French red.

Jason excels at it however.

Excelling at the commonplace? I suppose that's an achievement of sorts. Excelling at the extraordinary, OTOH ...

Nope. Their grounding is legitimate. Important distinction. Go watch Howlett’s try against Wales again – and every try he has ever scored against England.

Yes, I carefully left that bait dangling for you.

I must remember not to underestimate your command of English.

He's fluent! His occasional balls-up of a personal pronoun is a deliberate ploy to sucker you in!

A successful revolution that ended a well established class system in a riot of Blood.

I think I've said this before, but the first time I pottered around France, through the grotesquely decadent chateaux, I couldn't fathom why the Revolution took so long to happen.

"Two powers like France and England, with a good understanding between them, might govern the world."

He clearly foresaw the arrival of Rugby!

I think he clearly foresaw his place in history alongside D*ck Rowe, of Decca Reords, who rejected the Beatles on the basis that the days of guitar groups were over.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

I am expecting to be disappointed, once again.

EU2. EU2. EU2. I cannot say it enough mon ami.
The rts aspect really is completely incidental and it bears absolutely no likeness whatsoever to anything else flaunting that rather unsavoury tag. It's really nothing more than a tool to allow one to react to ones opponents.
Cross my heart and hope to play league.

I don't think the city itself was assaulted (I might be wrong though) but I know that a battle took place near Toulouse, almost under its walls.

I now have two mental images of a looted Toulouse with dismayed Frenchmen standing around in despair in the aftermath.
One of these perpetrated by General Wellington with the British Army, the other by Mrs finbar with finbar's credit card.
Spotting the differences, other than being a couple of centuries apart, isn't easy.
Apologies in absentia to both Mrs finbar and to finbar's credit card.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Apologies in absentia to both Mrs finbar and to finbar's credit card.

You don't know the half of it! Her whole trip grew out of a dinner in a restaurant with a couple of old girlfriends of hers. They said they were going on a canal barge holiday in France very soon and suggested she join them. She was taking time off between jobs, but thought it was all too hard to organise in a short time. So I organised it for her. Booked and paid her airfare! I, OTOH, was commited to a job for six months in Melbourne. So while she was swanning around the French canals scoffing camembert and French red, I was working and living in a back office in a production company in Melbourne! Only when she'd had her holiday and joined me in Melbourne did I end up in decent accommodation!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
Truly? I must have missed your thoughts. Could you bring me up to speed, please?

They s*Censored*.

Ah! George Bush smokes Gauloise!

I can't imagine this man smoking anything though some of his acts or words obviously suggest the opposite.

Then it's time a civilised person such as yourself learned. It's the only game in the world that can be played over five days, with no result, yet be utterly enthralling. As opposed to something like, say, basketball, which can be played over about 40 minutes of non-stop action and remain constantly utterly tediously unenthralling. Or even something like baseball, which seems to consist of about 17 minutes of action over a 9 hour period with the same effect. And don't get me started on gridiron, which seems to consist of 8 minutes of action over an 11 hour period with the obvious effect.

As I wrote it earlier, one needs to have grown up with this game to understand and appreciate it.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
The coincidences continue! The Iron Duke got off there, demobilised and headed homeward after forcing Marshal Soualts withdrawal.

Are you sure the marshal's name was Soualts? Wasn't it Soult?

You are right of course. The French Revolution terrified the British establishment. They bent their entire will to two ends – to prevent revolutionary ferver crossing the channel (though réfugiés were of course welcomed in large numbers) and to then thwarting French aims throughout Europe. What a shame they succeeded in the former.

We will never know what would have happened if Napoléon had succeeded... we can only imagine it.

You have to get inside their heads. A successful revolution that ended a well established class system in a riot of Blood. To the British Upper classes it must have seemed as if the devil himself had descended upon France.

I think your description is very adequate.

Wellington assaulted the heights to the east of the city whilst simulataneously infiltrating the Western suburbs. He placed his artillery on the captured high ground and shelled Soualt out of the city. And it all took place four days after the Emporer had abdicated and was therefore quite pointless. There are therefore doubtless areas of the city today where skirmishes were fought. The whole era remains fascinating to me.

The era is indeed very interesting and I am learning many things from you about Toulouse. I have spotted an article a few days ago in a newspaper but I can't remember which one. The title was "Toulouse: the forgotten battle" and it displayed a picture of Grognards charging into the battle, I deeply regret not having bought it.

"Two powers like France and England, with a good understanding between them, might govern the world."

If they had been allies I don't think anyone could have resist them.

He clearly foresaw the arrival of Rugby!

One day, France will win the World Cup... one day.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
One day, France will win the World Cup... one day.

The day fat little Napoleon with his stumpy legs rises from his grave to play hooker.

[Havak]

They show Sky Sports News, so I could watch highlights, but that's not really what I'm after.

Highlights certainly would not key you in to the weaknesses we have right now. One has to suffer the full 80 to really appreciate it.

But who allowed Mitchell all that rope?

You have already eloquently pinged the NZRFU for it’s recent history of poor decision making.

The coincidence continues! When Mrs finbar got off the barge, she demobilised a couple of crates of French red.

It’s clear she is descended from the Duke himself.

Excelling at the commonplace? I suppose that's an achievement of sorts. Excelling at the extraordinary, OTOH ...

Oh like Ben Cohen strolling through your central defence in June maybe? The ABs wingers are very very good and certainly take the chances created by the men inside them well. Extraordinary is probably slightly over egging their pudding however.

Yes, I carefully left that bait dangling for you.

Great. What with that and the hook above my mouth is becoming a bloody mess!

His occasional balls-up of a personal pronoun is a deliberate ploy to sucker you in!

And as such totally lost on me. Grammatical errors are far better spotted by an Australian than by this Englishman.

I couldn't fathom why the Revolution took so long to happen.

Then keep you eye out for the recent BBC mini-series Charles II (Starring Rufus Sewell) about the greatest error this country has ever made – restoring the monarchy.

I understand historains argue that two main things hamper our interpretation of the past – firstly that we assume intellectual superiority to the figures of the time (when arguably only education and knowledge can differ) and secondly that we simply cannot think like the contemporary figures. The latter must certainly be the key to why the French Revolution took so long. It takes time for people to start to think in radical new ways and then even longer to act on it.

It’s certainly the key to the English Restoration. In modern terms it seems an insane decision – having fought to get rid of a ridiculous institution to then put it back in place so rapidly. But then we think of Parliament these days as the seat of Democratic will – whereas then it was simply a place of appointed privilege and was in any case dismissed under the Protectorate (that was effectively a Puritan Dictatorship). Would I have enjoyed living under a state that closed all public houses? I suspect not.

I think he clearly foresaw his place in history alongside D*ck Rowe, of Decca Reords, who rejected the Beatles on the basis that the days of guitar groups were over.

Now that is a worthy thing to be remembered for.

So while she was swanning around the French canals scoffing camembert and French red, I was working and living in a back office in a production company in Melbourne!

Is he looking for sympathy Ravagon?
Interestingly I believe that the Leicestershire and Derbyshire Yeomanry was present at Toulouse. Given how things worked back then it is inevitable that there are citizens in Toulouse descended from the get of camp followers or the sacking of the town. No doubt some will be distant relations of mine (I have no doubt various ancestors took the Shilling to avoid jail – call it a hunch).

Are you sure the marshal's name was Soualts? Wasn't it Soult?

Oops. Yes it was. Sorry!

We will never know what would have happened if Napoléon had succeeded... we can only imagine it.

Absolutely. It would be a different world.

At the least we might have a very different class system here – ‘new’ aristocracy instead of the inbred idiots we have now.

The title was "Toulouse: the forgotten battle" and it displayed a picture of Grognards charging into the battle, I deeply regret not having bought it.

That title for it is actually very accurate. Because it was fought after the abdication (neither commander being aware of that fact obviously) it was all considered rather embarrassing and glossed over. When you consider over 3000 defenders and nearly 5000 assaulting troops died it’s becomes a real tragedy. Toulouse was heavily fortified and taken at great cost – for what tuned out to be no reason at all.

If they had been allies I don't think anyone could have resist them.

This is the point in any other thread where a US poster would jump in and say “we would have”. Lets see if any are browsing here? If you see my earlier point about perspective on history they tend to project their current level of power back to the commencement of their nation. Few of them have any idea how they would have been no match for an Anglo-French axis. Only slightly more realise how key French support and influence was in the establishing of their nation in both the Rebellion itself and in the war of 1812.

One day, France will win the World Cup... one day.

There will be no better chance than in 2007.

(though I must admit Finbar’s response was funnier, if far less supportive).

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Extraordinary is probably slightly over egging their pudding however.

Culinary metaphors, learned discourses on the Napoleonic wars, you're obviously a back trapped inside the body of a tighthead.

And as such totally lost on me. Grammatical errors are far better spotted by an Australian than by this Englishman.

Either way, I know he guffaws up his manche as he deliberately gets the personal pronouns wrong, knowing he's suckering some of us. Well, it's only some of us. I'm a wake up!

Then keep you eye out for the recent BBC mini-series Charles II (Starring Rufus Sewell) about the greatest error this country has ever made – restoring the monarchy.

Yes, but with whom would they've been photo-opped the other day without Her? I imagine we'll get the mini-series here. We have "The Mayor of Casterbridge" starting on Sunday night. I'm sure, deep in the bowels of a library somewhere, exists a novel the BBC hasn't adaptated.

I understand historains argue that two main things hamper our interpretation of the past – firstly that we assume intellectual superiority to the figures of the time (when arguably only education and knowledge can differ) and secondly that we simply cannot think like the contemporary figures. The latter must certainly be the key to why the French Revolution took so long. It takes time for people to start to think in radical new ways and then even longer to act on it.

And we have hindsight. As will they who, in the future, attempt to interpret the madness of today's world. If there's a future.

It’s certainly the key to the English Restoration. In modern terms it seems an insane decision – having fought to get rid of a ridiculous institution to then put it back in place so rapidly. But then we think of Parliament these days as the seat of Democratic will – whereas then it was simply a place of appointed privilege and was in any case dismissed under the Protectorate (that was effectively a Puritan Dictatorship).

Mmmmm. Definitely a back trapped inside the body of a tighthead.

Would I have enjoyed living under a state that closed all public houses? I suspect not.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Evidence, suddenly, to the contrary.

Interestingly I believe that the Leicestershire and Derbyshire Yeomanry was present at Toulouse.

Presumably those Tigers gave a better showing than the current crop are likely to should they visit Toulouse.

This is the point in any other thread where a US poster would jump in and say “we would have”.

No, we scare them off with culinary metaphors.

There will be no better chance than in 2007.

(though I must admit Finbar’s response was funnier, if far less supportive).

Frankly, in context, I think yours is much funnier!

[Tamerlin]

Why revolutions are so long to come? IMO simply because the first to rise are the first to die.

[Havak]

If not the first to die Tamerlin it is true the initial figures in a Rebellion seldom remain prominent. They tend to be people of conviction and therefore get swept aside by the Political opportunists.

Culinary metaphors, learned discourses on the Napoleonic wars, you're obviously a back trapped inside the body of a tighthead.

IQ did not dictate my position. Height and ‘build’ did. Even so there was no need for insults.

I'm sure, deep in the bowels of a library somewhere, exists a novel the BBC hasn't adaptated.

And a lot of it they do very well indeed. Even when the source material is tedious in the extreme. Still if they ever run out they could always remake everything with a new cast for contemporary audiences. More Production work up this way for the Finbars. After all to look authentically 19th Century England you would need to film in remote Northern Italy these days.

And we have hindsight. As will they who, in the future, attempt to interpret the madness of today's world

Hindsight, yes, good point. Far easier to spot a stupid decision several hundred years later.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Evidence, suddenly, to the contrary.

Love of Good Ale comes behind only love of Rugby, love of the better half and my keen interest in UK history in my life. Analyse the order I presented those in as you will!

Presumably those Tigers gave a better showing than the current crop are likely to should they visit Toulouse.

Right now we wouldn’t stand a chance against them. Presumably the ‘scores’ would be a little lower. But then in those hopeless positions we can thrive at times. And I gave no Scottish franchise any chance at all against them either!

No, we scare them off with culinary metaphors.

A shame – I am ‘as keen as mustard’ on the Colonial Rebellion as I am in the Napoleonic era.

[Caligastia]

What do you guys think about the upcoming match between the NZ Barbarians and England? England surely have to win this one if they want to keep the shine on their new trophy. No doubt if the NZ side wins there will be kiwis claiming we would have beaten England if we had made it to the final.

Also, England will be doing a 3-test tour of NZ and Oz next year, one test to be played in Australia and two in NZ. This should be a good test of whoever will be coaching the ABs by then...hopefully Mitchell.

[Havak]

The main problem Caligastia is that the England side will not be the 22 that figured in Sydney - and the Barbarians are lacking star Kiwi names too. All the big names up here (Cullen et al) are contracted to clubs who have a full program that weekend just like the English clubs. There will be no Johnson or Wilkinson etc.

Given the biggest name that just pulled out of the barbarians was Caucaunibuca the Kiwi's could never have claimed victory anyway could they?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
The main problem Caligastia is that the England side will not be the 22 that figured in Sydney - and the Barbarians are lacking star Kiwi names too. All the big names up here (Cullen et al) are contracted to clubs who have a full program that weekend just like the English clubs. There will be no Johnson or Wilkinson etc.

Oops, I didn't realize it would be a second string team. Forget my comments.

England will no doubt take their best for the tour down south next year though.

Given the biggest name that just pulled out of the barbarians was Caucaunibuca the Kiwi's could never have claimed victory anyway could they?

Of course not.