Raise tariffs on America

[DanS]

I think Canada should impose tarrifs too, but primarily for our benefit, not theirs. It helps create balancing political constituencies in the US that are being hurt in addition to the constituencies that are being helped by sheltering. But choose the tarrifs well.

Overall, the US isn't very protectionist, even though a comparatively small percentage of our economy is traded with other countries. Our trade deficit proves that point. Perhaps the US is using this opportunity to raise the cost of government subsidies in other countries in select industries, with the hope that they will be scrapped after the details are shown.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DrSpike
What is more South Korea is the textbook example of a poor country that prospered on the back of export led growth.

If other countries keep their markets closed, there will be no export-led growth.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
There should be international agreement on increasing tarriffs on the US, or alternatively, unless they reverse the protectionist situation, for international embargoes to be placed on their products.

A Euro is complaining about protectionism?!

Why don't you go check some of the extreme protectionist measures the EU has put in place. How high is the tarrif on foreign made autos in the EU? Geee, it looks like you still cap the total number of cars which can be imported as well. Your fat cat farmers are getting well over twice the subsidies ours are getting and you bastards flat out lied to us about removing the subsidies. The EU said that if America removed its subsidies then the EU would as well; the US killed off its subsidies for four years and then the bastard Euros increased their farm subsidies. Then when the US got tired of waiting for the EU to make good on its promise and reimposed farm subsidies at less then half it's previous level we had to listen to hypocritical Euros bellow about how "unfair" the US was.

Also look at the EU's steel regime. The government mandates that each countries' producers get a certain percentage of market share reguardless of market demand and it also puts up big road blocks to prevent foreign made steel from taking to much of the market. Compared to this the US's anti-dumping laws are child's play.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
If other countries keep their markets closed, there will be no export-led growth.

Which is why rich countries have poor countries over a barrel. During the cold war the US put up with opening it's markets while protectionist powers, like Korea and Japan, kept their domestic markets closed, because the US wanted those countries to be stable. The problem is just about every country in east Asia has patterned themselves on Japan and has become an export machine which puts huge road blocks to prevent imports. Why should we continue to let these abuses continue?

It sounds like these countries need to start playing in good faith or we should start locking them out of our markets just as they lock us out of theirs.

[DanS]

Oerdin: What some of us are saying is that if Japan locks others out of their markets, it hurts the Japanese the most.

They end up doing absurd stuff like buying US government bonds at disadvantageous times in order to keep the Yen from going up in price versus the dollar. They end up subsidizing the American consumer.

[Dinner]

Yes, you are saying it hurts Japanese consumers but it helps Japanese producers which is why the Japanese do it.

I would like to see us impliment a preferential trading zone where powers like China, which block US goods in most of its market, get slapped with huge tarrifs and countries like singapore which have open markets get to trade with no tarrifs. Turn around is fair play and if China and all want us to drop our tarrifs then they should be forced to drop their own tarrifs as well.

[DanS]

Yes, you are saying it hurts Japanese consumers but it helps Japanese producers which is why the Japanese do it.

It doesn't help producers in general in the long run, only specific industries in the short run. With the extra yen that the Japanese consumer would have if they paid lower prices because of imports, they would have funded new industries in Japan. It's not like there would be fewer yen available because of imports.

[Spiffor]

Oerdin:
I don't remeber the EU was in a Free Trade Area with the US, unlike Canada.
Besides, I don't think either the EU nor the US can pretend to have the moral high ground when it comes to commercial deals. We are exactly the same kind of backstabbers.

[Dinner]

You are forgetting about the extra jobs which would be lost if imports took a large part of the market. With fewer workers getting income and corporations paying less taxes there would be fewer Yen availible because of imports.

The trade off is they end up paying more for goods so the real cost to benifet is going to depend upon how much more they pay for goods verses how many jobs are saved by the tarrifs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Oerdin:
I don't remeber the EU was in a Free Trade Area with the US, unlike Canada.
Besides, I don't think either the EU nor the US can pretend to have the moral high ground when it comes to commercial deals. We are exactly the same kind of backstabbers.

You are of course right. I just got worked up when PH said the US was so much worse then the EU.

[DanS]

ou are forgetting about the extra jobs which would be lost if imports took a large part of the market. With fewer workers getting income and corporations paying less taxes there would be fewer Yen availible because of imports.

That's not the way trade works and that's why Japan is (thankfully) chasing after a phantom. While jobs are lost in some industries, they are gained in other industries on a higher payscale.

[DanS]

I don't remeber the EU was in a Free Trade Area with the US, unlike Canada.

Don't cry for Canada. Canada benefits hugely by a free trade zone with the US. Most of its population lives within 50 miles of the US border and a very large portion of the Canadian economy is US trade related.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
That's not the way trade works and that's why Japan is (thankfully) chasing after a phantom. While jobs are lost in some industries, they are gained in other industries on a higher payscale.

Maybe but maybe not. It depends upon if the country has a competetive advantage in other industries or not. If they don't have a competetive advantage in any industries or if the number of disadvantages outnumbers the number of advantages then the country would be worse off then before. Of course prices would be lower so their will be a benifet there which would have to be factored in, however, there is a point where a country is so uncompetetive that free trade would cause more harm then good.

You could argue that in the long run free trade would make the country more competetive but that doesn't help the workers or corporations during the 20 years or so it would take to realign themselves. I think in that case it would be better to slowly lower the trade barriers, allowing the industries to slowly adapt, rather then just going cold turkey into free trade.

[DanS]

Maybe but maybe not.

Definitely. Not "maybe, but maybe not". Dr Spike will fill you in on the details.

You could argue that in the long run free trade would make the country more competetive but that doesn't help the workers or corporations during the 20 years or so it would take to realign themselves. I think in that case it would be better to slowly lower the trade barriers, allowing the industries to slowly adapt, rather then just going cold turkey into free trade.

That's what was done with the US steel industry. Didn't seem to help.

[Spiffor]

Yes, but I find it pretty impressive that the US can raise tariffs towards a partner in a free trade area.
The former ban of British Beef in France was a subject to countless whining on 'Poly, and I wonder why the US tariffs towards Canada should be treated any different.

Maybe something like that wouldn't happen if NAFTA countries had an harmonized tariff policy?