Raving. (but polite)

[Az]

for shame

[Dis]

this wouldn't have happened, if you weren't illegally voting for Gore during the last election. Just because you don't live in the U.s. doesn't mean you can't vote for U.S. president.

[Dis]

I can't help but think that the U.S. may be responsible for these attacks . indirectly of course.

This war on terror isn't going so well

I'm sorry my nation isn't good enough for you.

[Ancyrean]

Certainly the Bush administration has much to be criticised, on a variety of issues ranging from how the decision to invade Iraq was taken in the first place to the way current occupation of Iraq is run, but just for the sake of clarity of argument, let's think of another question: Why did they do the attacks of 9/11 in the first place?

A possible answer is because they have decided to take on the US much before than W. Bush was sworn in office...It follows from here that no matter how drastic a change of foreign policy for the Middle East took place on behalf of the US in the 90s, the AQ had already have ascertained that the US is the great satan, and thus would not think of not "going ahead" with 9/11...

Here you have the option of blaming the US for its foreign policy for the past 50 years in the Middle East, but then it would be too much to expect from any country let alone the US to make foreign policy with a view to not touching the raw nerve of fundamentalists in the region...

The invasions of Aghanistan and Iraq and the subsequent developments only gave the AQ direction about what to do next...Where to place the next bomb ...Of course, it really doesnt matter for all those who lost their lives in all terrorist attacks

[Az]

Until 64', the US wasn't a friend of Israel. it tried to pander to arab interests.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Azazel

Don't worry Greece is under no attack, it has the best relations with arabs for the last 30 years at least, we and they are our allies

Yes, your capital was one of the easiest places to capture a passanger airplane. Good days.

A religious fanatic is leading the US.

Wait... and who's leading your "allies" ?


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...

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Wait a second, I don't care, since you don't really think the way you just posted in this thread. This is just another troll!

See, not only is Az too direct but he's too jingoistic and religious to seperate himself from the Israeli identity, which in turn makes his trolls a fezfest

Anyway, the US is at falt yes, however the terrorists are also at fault as well

[Az]

See, not only is Az too direct but he's too jingoistic and religious to seperate himself from the Israeli identity, which in turn makes his trolls a fezfest

yep, that's me, religious. BUSTED.



Go and whine at pictures of girls in bikinis, "liberal".

[The Viceroy]

The idea that somehow Al Quida wouldn't have done this kind of thing if the US/UK hadn't gone against International bodies such as the UN is hillarious ..

I can see Bin-Laden, seething with anger at how the UN was swept aside.

Of course.. he waited for the UN resolution to be passed allowing him to hit the trade centre ...

These are evil terrorists we are talking about, although I can accept that the fact that the US/UK didn't get UN approval has made many people feel annoyed with them, this is not the reason why Al Quida are doing what they are doing. They don't care for the UN, the French or the Germans or even the Greeks .. they'd just as happily blow you up as well if you stand in their way.

So what should we do, run .. hide .. not criticise them, not attack back ??

To stand still in my opinion, is to do more evil, than to attack .. and I know that many here will not agree with that sentiment .. and thats down to your own personal moral judgement (respected) ..

I just don't see any other alternative.

[Dis]

but you have to admit, that since the U.S. invaded iraq the Al Queda attacks have gone up.

[orange]

I just hope that you're able to judge Americans by their own individual characteristics, rather than the ones of those who 'lead' us.

[Dinner]

I can't bare thinking, that all this would have been avoided if the agloamericans, ignoring international law, and the wishes of the international community didnt attack iraq and plunged a region in turmoil.

And what about all of those Islamic terrorist attacks which predate Iraq and Afghanistan? What we are dealing with a brutal and violent people who are looking for any justification to be brutal and violent.

[Imran Siddiqui]

but you have to admit, that since the U.S. invaded iraq the Al Queda attacks have gone up.

No. We just notice them more now. Before, who really gave a damn?

[Dinner]

BTW Al Qaeda has sponsored terrorist attacks in Afghanistan, China (the western muslim part of china), Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Tunis, Morocco, Egypt, Kenya, Tanzania, Yemen, Indonesia, and the US. Plus they tried, but were stopped, in the UK, Italy, France, and Spain (not to mention in the US again).

Most of the countries on that list didn't support the Iraq invasion yet Arab terror organizations still targeted them. Like the Nazis before them the modern Arab facist cannot be appeased and most be confronted directly.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Azazel
for shame

I think most people already knew that most of the anti-Semetic hate crimes occuring in Europe were commited by muslims and Arab immigrants. It's nice to have an official EU government report come to that conclusion though.

[Mr. Harley]

I think the Russian foreign minister said it best in an interview I heard. I'm doing this from memory, but he complained about George Bush's Iraq policy. He stated that after the World Trade Center attacks, the US had the world on our side. He resented Bush screwing that up, instead polarizing the world with the unilateralism with Iraq and souring all the good will. With the good will he stated that the US could have forged an anti-terror coalition, but without it the US had blown a good chance. The Russians have their own problems with asymetric warface targeting civilians (which of course the Russian leadership have contributed to, but the dead civilians were never asked for there input).

The problem here in the US is that most people from Parliamentary Democracies don't really understand the structure of a REPRESENTATIVE Republic. We have a President who won the election while losing the popular vote. We have computer-based gerrymandered election districts designed to disenfanchise voters of the other party (both sides do this). Our President is largely unaccountable for a four year period, no matter what, due to the design of our impeachment system and the two party system, unless what he does is highly egregious. Plus in most elections not even half of the adults who could be registered voters vote (non-Presedential year elections) and many of those that do vote never bother to actually look up the record of the candidate.

So it is not really the AngloAmericans who invaded Irag, but the Bush adminstration, plus the Blair governement. In both countries, especially if you make certain the people of the facts (for the US, the Brits are better informed it seems), they are opposed to war. The problem in America is that many people are too lazy to get there facts anyplace but the Fox news channel (distorted right-wing news plus propoganda and opinion masquerading as news), and that plus the lack of voter turn-out is what Americans can be blamed for. Our inaction foisted the Bush administration on the world. I at least can say I voted against the sod, and was ready to try to keep him out of office by voting in my state primary (how parties select their candidates, for non-US readers), but by then it was too late. I'm also a proud gun-owning non-liberal, but that doesn't mean I have to like the Bush adminstration, and accept his vision of neo-conservatism.

Speaking of which, reference Azazel and Comrade Tassadar, please remember there are many religious Jews out there who find the Zionist comments Azazel make repugnant, and his identification of "religious" in an attempt to imply that excuses his trolls as an affront to Judeism (sort of like what George Bush and the religious right try to do in the US with "Christian"). My wife, who used to teach children at the local synagogue (having a baby put a cramp at that, but our little girl goes with mom to services on Saturday) , is one of those who finds Zionism horrible, and could quote how the intolerance shown by Zionists is very anti-Talmudic, I can't because I'm a New Testament type . She finds the treatment of Palestinians by Israel (google "water rights" "west bank" and go to the non-Arab sites if you want to see what I mean) or the seizure of Bedouin land in the Negev shameful. That doesn't mean she thinks the surrounding Arab governments are nice, she finds most of them unpleasant, also. One, however, does not excuse the other, and she refuses to buy into the "us" or "them" mentality. I just resent the fact that US administations support of Israel while not making them accountable for the Geneva convention reference civilians has helped make the US a target. Al Quaeda would have attacked someone else if the US hadn't meddled in the Mideast. Then it would be their problem.