Taiwan tells China to piss off...

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ned
Mindseye, thanks for your post. But, this raises the question, in what way is China still communist at all?

He does make it sound more like a capitalistic leaning oligarchy doesn't he?

[DinoDoc]

How are things in the Xinjiang province, as a contrast to the coast, mindseye?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Ned
Mindseye, thanks for your post. But, this raises the question, in what way is China still communist at all?

Communism has become more like a religion here. Lots of people go to church, but few actually practice. I'm still trying to find a little red book that was blessed by Mao to ward away the foreign devils.

[Mr. Harley]

Urban Ranger said: What are you talking about? These are missiles, not unguided rockets. The arsenal now also include cruise missiles and long range ASM and anti-radiation missiles.

Okay, I put it poorly. The history so far of non-prescision guided missles having a significant impact on military operations is nil. The Chinese do not have a precision cruise missle with capabilities of modern US weapons - with submunitions and guidance within several feet of the target. Yes, the Chinese can put the missle in the vicinity of the target. Any kind of hardening will defeat it, and somehow I cannot see the Taiwanese military not hardening their military installations given the long history of China and various types of medium range missle, back to the Scud and Styx era (long range missles are germane to their relations with the US, not Taiwan except indirectly). The only significant military damage (without WMD) I can see the Chinese doing would be to runways immediately before they started the aviation campaign. However, since Taiwan would not be deploying heavy aircraft, even short intact stretches of runway would be sufficient to scramble their fighter force. Radar-anti-radar missles conflicts are usually decided by the side with the best electronics, and right now that is still Taiwan.

Your point about the missles and Taiwan's stock market are extremely germane. However, as other posters have eloquently put it, this would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, China would take a massive economic hit also. Then the issue I made about a unified versus factional party leadership come in to play. To misuse a phrase, "Golden handcuffs."

[Ned]

Originally posted by DaShi




Communism has become more like a religion here. Lots of people go to church, but few actually practice. I'm still trying to find a little red book that was blessed by Mao to ward away the foreign devils.

Certainly, with things going so well in China, the Communist Party must be extremely popular. They could, it seems, hold free elections and be re-elected in a landslide.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Ned


Certainly, with things going so well in China, the Communist Party must be extremely popular. They could, it seems, hold free elections and be re-elected in a landslide.

Which is what most CEE post-Communist states experienced, either in the first or in the second free elections. People are idiots

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, they could always rig the elections. That worked fine for a while in ex-Soviet Europe, and many of the Central Asian countries are still doing that. Nepotism, oligarchy, and shameless use of family ties are a keystone of free market economics mixed with by-the-crowds politics, as G. W. Bush's own election suggests.

He seems to be doing okay though.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Well, they could always rig the elections. That worked fine for a while in ex-Soviet Europe, and many of the Central Asian countries are still doing that. Nepotism, oligarchy, and shameless use of family ties are a keystone of free market economics mixed with by-the-crowds politics, as G. W. Bush's own election suggests.

He seems to be doing okay though.

I understand the commies stay in power in Cambodia by rigging elections there.

Ali, your description of the "new" China seems like a description of the "old" China prior to the overthrow of the last emperor.

Nevertheless, all this bodes well.

[Urban Ranger]

US opposes Chen's silliness

The U.S. State Department is urging Taiwan not to hold a referendum on independence from China.

Spokesman Richard Boucher says the United States will oppose any attempt by China or Taiwan to change the status of the island Beijing views as a breakaway province. He says the United States wants both sides to refrain from statements or actions that increase tensions or make dialogue more difficult.

VoA article

[Spiffor]

That's not a surprise.

The US has enough problems already, with Iraq being more of a drag than expected, and the Korea affair not sorted out. The US definitely not wants one more area of unstability to cope with.

I think the US will call for the Status Quo for about whatever issue that could further threaten world stability. At least, until the current messes are sorted out.

[Urban Ranger]

The way I see it, this is the US's way of saying, "We are not going to get involved if missiles start flying, so proceed at your own peril."

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The way I see it, this is the US's way of saying, "We are not going to get involved if missiles start flying, so proceed at your own peril."

The status quo would also mean for China to stay put and the two seperate governments to be left intact. Again, the US plays both sides of the fence.

[Drake Tungsten]

No, it's more "we don't want to spare the forces needed to back the Chinese down right now, so hold off on this independence talk until our strategic situation is better".

[DaShi]

Don't make me separate you two!

[mindseye]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How are things in the Xinjiang province, as a contrast to the coast, mindseye?

Shanghai is the pinacle of the capstone of a huge pyramid. Xinjiang is pretty far from the top.

Xinjiang has recently fared better than some of the other poorer western provinces in that it has valuable natural resources (oil) to be extracted. I have not been there yet, and can only give you my best impression from a distance. It seems that development is quickly gathering pace there, but that the Uighurs (the local caucasian minority, for those not familiar) are not getting a fair slice of the action taking place on their home turf. They can't get the good jobs going to better educated Han. In general the Han Chinese (at least around here) think of the Uighurs in terms almost identical to the way many westerners think of "gypsies" (i.e. colorful, musical but highly suspect outsiders who like spicy food and are liable to rob you).

I think their situation is not disimilar to that of many Tibetans. They are happy to see things improving so rapidly, but they are worried about their local culture being swept away in a tide of development and Han immigrants. They are not economically benefiting from the development like Han Chinese are. From what I gather I think the Uighurs dislike the Han more than the Tibetans do.

I hope to get out to those areas before long, and to see for myself.