Carol Moseley Braun on Affirmative Action

[Ned]

Affirmative action was created by Richard Nixon during the Eisenhower administration. When he became president, he really put muscle into the concept by creating "quotas and timetables." His first objective was to desegregate the all-white trade unions. From there it spread to all businesses and universities.

Without the aggressive enforcement by Nixon, trade unions and many businesses and colleges would still be segregated.

And, of course, Nixon is a Republican whom Democrats demonize as a racist, as are all Republicans, according to them.

The status of blacks has changed dramatically since Nixon. Affirmative action for blacks may no longer be necessary. It might be time to call a halt for a number of years to see what happens without AA. If the patterns of segregation re-emerges, then we put AA back.

Also, I agree with C-Cubed that we should stop calling AA something for minorities. It is not. Europeans, after all, are a minority in California. Just one of many. AA is for blacks almost exclusively.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by rah
While I'm not a big fan of AA, there is one fact that can't be ignored. The biggest past, current, and likely far into the future winner of AA is WHITE MALES. I've been in many large companies, and a quick review of all their executive boards show dominance by, YES you guessed it "WHITE MALES" sure the HR director is usually black or female, and there is the occasional exception in other postitions, but the business world is still dominated by WHITE MALES. I refuse to believe that the pool of capable blacks and females is so small that the current boards acurately reflect competance percentages in the population. So when the next white male bemoans how much AA has cost him, please feel free to whack him on the side of the head and correct him. The white male has and will continue to benefit from from the fact that he is a white male.

RAH
I believe no person should unfairly benefit from their sex and race. Ability should always be used to judge. ESPECIALLY for white males.

Yea, it's about time that we off-white males are given credit for all our kick-a$$ work and given the jobs, education, dental work, erudition and possessions of silver spoon sucking golf playing executive vermin like yourself.

Q cubed makes the best points IMO, it was conceived and sold as a way to undo racism and it exists and thrives as a racial political payoff system in large part. It perpetuates racism, and for no good reason other than politicians can curry favor by attacking or defending it depending on how their district is drawn. Into the trashheap and lets bring on some objective standards.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
1. although ostensibly for minorities, in reality it's only used to advance the causes of blacks, hispanics, and occasionally, women.

This is completely incorrect. The primary beneficeries of AA have been white women, and by extension, whites in general due to the increased opportunites and earnings of their families. Ironic, isn't it.

other minorities, most notably asians, are ignored because somehow, we're too "white", so it's not that we hit a glass ceiling, we're just too short to reach it.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you want AA you have to fight for it. Part of he problem is that Asians tend to over achieve getting into post-secondary education, though appranetly this hasn't translated into success in the upper eschalons of society, which remains white, male, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. If you gota problem with racism, then you need to organize. *****ing about it won't get you anywhere.

3. why the hell is it called "affirmative action"? what's the sense in that term?

Because simply ending de jure racism would not undo the effects of Jim Crow. If you were forced to go to inferior schools, you have no chance of being able to successfully compete against those who did. If you were never able to build a job history because no one would Black, Mexican, a woman, Catholic, etc., how do you compete against people who had a job history just for being white Protestant men? Therefore, it was seen as a way to do something affirmative to end the effects of prior racism.

Since de facto racsim is still deeply ingrained in this society, AA is still necessary.

[Q Classic]

This is completely incorrect. The primary beneficeries of AA have been white women, and by extension, whites in general due to the increased opportunites and earnings of their families. Ironic, isn't it.

how is it completely incorrect? i do say that women benefit from it, don't i?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you want AA you have to fight for it. Part of he problem is that Asians tend to over achieve getting into post-secondary education, though appranetly this hasn't translated into success in the upper eschalons of society, which remains white, male, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. If you gota problem with racism, then you need to organize. *****ing about it won't get you anywhere.

you obviously then haven't heard of the numerous asian-american civil rights groups which get no airtime simply because we're "successful" and don't need it.
did i mention that once on politically incorrect you had some comedienne answer why the line "i love chinks" was funny to an asian-american activist (who, incidentally, was of japanese extraction)? the audience didn't give a **** about the guy.
or the groups that tried and failed to get airtime during the entire wen ho lee fiasco when every chinaman was a spy? did you hear anything about them, even when they were trying to raise hell and getting lots of support from asian-american communites?
didn't think so.

and che, you didn't answer my question as to why it's called affirmative action.
affirmative means an agreement, a "yes". an action, well, is an action. so it's a yes action. wtf is that supposed to mean?

[Ned]

For those of you who may have not seen interview, another high point was when Chris Matthews asked Carol Moseley-Braun, "Why you think President Bush invaded Iraq?" She began to answer, then caught herself and replied, "I don't know." Matthews then said, " Oh, come on now, you must know why President Bush invaded Iraq?" Carol Moseley-Braun again replied, "I don't know." Then Chris Matthews said, " Then, how can you criticize President Bush's Iraq's policy if you don't know why he invaded Iraq?

[chequita guevara]

[Q] Originally posted by Q Cubed

i do say that women benefit from it, don't i?

You wrote and occasionally women, which is the opposite of reality, which is that women are the primary beneficeries.

you obviously then haven't heard of the numerous asian-american civil rights groups which get no airtime simply because we're "successful" and don't need it.

You think any other group achieved "success" quickly or easily?

and che, you didn't answer my question as to why it's called affirmative action.
affirmative means an agreement, a "yes". an action, well, is an action. so it's a yes action. wtf is that supposed to mean?

Does it matter? English is weird like that.

[DinoDoc]

I love being on people's ignore lists. It lets me make valid points completely unchallenged.

[Caligastia]

Who has you on their list?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I love being on people's ignore lists. It lets me make valid points completely unchallenged.

Maybe you shouldn't make such tiny posts.

[DinoDoc]

Why waste 100 words when you can get your point across in 10?

[chequita guevara]

Because you tend to get missed when on is skimming.

[NeOmega]

Moseley-Braun sucks.

"My platofrom is that I am black and a woman!"

Whooptee F***in doo. Get out, fat woman.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by NeOmega
Moseley-Braun sucks.

"My platofrom is that I am black and a woman!"

Whooptee F***in doo. Get out, fat woman.

[chequita guevara]

I think Braun's platform is: I'm running for President, give me money. She's thoroughly corrupt. She had her chance from '92-'98 to prove her meddle. She failed.

[Capt Dizle]

Well, the effect that AA has on me is that whenever I am in the position of hiring someone, or boosting the career of a co-worker, I bust my ass to see that a white male gets preference.