Is communism legal in the US?

[VetLegion]

I am not from USA so forgive my ignorance on the matter.

I know that theoretically, Constitution of the USA guarantees everyone freedom of belief.

What is confusing me is that I learned that during the cold war, not sure of the year, senator McCarthy of the US Senate conducted investigations with the intention of exposing communists.

I have a few questions coming from that.

1. Was communism illegal during the cold war?

2. If it was, how was the law that outlawed it compliant with the Constitution?

3. What were the consequences for people found to be communists by McCarthy?

4. Is communism legal in the USA nowadays? Can you run for office as a communist?


Thanks in advance for your replies.

[Sarxis]

Conspiracy against the government isn't legal, and I'd suppose that communism assumes the overthrow of any current democratic form of government.

Unless you are think of 'pure' communism, which to my limited knowledge, deals more with the economic side of things.

[VetLegion]

Libertarians want to abolish the state altogether and they are legal. So that doesn't sound convincing.

[JohnT]

1. Was communism illegal during the cold war?

Believing in it was not illegal per se, but belonging to groups that were identified as Communist could get you in trouble as the law.

2. If it was, how was the law that outlawed it compliant with the Constitution?

"National Security" is quite a big blanket that covers a lot of abuses - people from Lincoln to Dubya have used it to violate the spirit and the word of the Constitution.

3. What were the consequences for people found to be communists by McCarthy?

Some jail time, loss of income in ones major profession were the worst results ("blacklisting" is where an entire profession openly refuses to work with a person or list of people), however the ostracization and other societal penalties in many times were more overbearing and painful than any civil judgements.

4. Is communism legal in the USA nowadays? Can you run for office as a communist?

Yes, and yes. People have been running as socialists, communists, and whatever bizarre idea you can think of for quite awhile. However, the US is a Republic which means that you have to convince each individual state to put you on their ballot - there is no National Election Board that standardizes the process. This is the problem with getting true third party representation - you have to draw up 50 petitions, all of them with their own set of rules, in order to have your party qualify to get on the ballot.

The McCarthy episodes were a shameful period in America history, no doubt about it. Regardless of how things turned out in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, etc., "Communism" should've been been treated as any other idea or ideology - one that stands or falls on it's own merits, both real world and theoretical.

[Jac de Molay]

Edit Nevermind

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Libertarians want to abolish the state altogether ...

Modern-day Hippies; of course they aren't taken seriously.

[JohnT]

Btw, I'm not too sure that it is illegal for any one State to go Communist - the Peoples Republik of Kolorado, for example, as long as all legal and contractual obligations remain in effect (i.e., they don't secede from the union, they still pay taxes, they don't "nationalize" industries owned by companies in other states, crap like that).

[Kidlicious]

Re: Is communism legal in the US?

Originally posted by VetLegion
1. Was communism illegal during the cold war?

The Cold War was kind of like the War on Terrorism. The right wing seems to like to be at war at times to attack their political opponents. They justify denying constitutional rights because they weigh constitutional rights against needs for national defense. Unfortunately this has occured too many times through out our history, and the left is quite sick of it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
Btw, I'm not too sure that it is illegal for any one State to go Communist - the Peoples Republik of Kolorado, for example, as long as all legal and contractual obligations remain in effect (i.e., they don't secede from the union, they still pay taxes, they don't "nationalize" industries owned by companies in other states, crap like that).

It's legal to take property from citizens as long as you compensate them for it and it is in the interest of the government and it serves the people as a whole.

[Lefty Scaevola]

communism is lawful.
working toward violent overthrow of the goverment is not.
You are ok if you keep the latter out of the former, just like right wing groups have to do.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by JohnT
Btw, I'm not too sure that it is illegal for any one State to go Communist - the Peoples Republik of Kolorado, for example, as long as all legal and contractual obligations remain in effect (i.e., they don't secede from the union, they still pay taxes, they don't "nationalize" industries owned by companies in other states, crap like that).

Here's an idea - a how-to kit for those of you out their running (or planning to run) a state.

Say you want the Peoples' Republic of Louisiana -
(1) nationalize everything and breach all contracts
(2) issue state bonds to pay for it all
(3) default on the bonds

Louisiana state law allows for the state to default, and the US Supreme Court case Hans v. Louisiana and the 11th amendment prevent anyone from suing the state for the money owed on the bonds.

Voila! Instant communism in a state. Let me know if anyone out there gets this to work.

[lord of the mark]

The law youre talking about , making it illegal to belong to an organization calling for the overthrow of the govt, was called the Smith Act.

Interestingly it was SUPPORTED by the Communist Party of the US at the time it was passed, IIRC. It was passed during WW2, for use against Trotskyites who were opposing the war effort. The Stalinist CPUSA, which supported the war effort, was eager to see the Trotskyites persecuted.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by JohnT
3. What were the consequences for people found to be communists by McCarthy?

Some jail time, loss of income in ones major profession were the worst results ("blacklisting" is where an entire profession openly refuses to work with a person or list of people), however the ostracization and other societal penalties in many times were more overbearing and painful than any civil judgements.

Do you know of anyone who was actually jailed as a result of being found a communist by the McCarthy commitee?

most people who lost jobs were govt employees, ISTR> the largest case of people in the private sector losing jobs was in the movie industry - that was connected with the House comm on Unamerican activities, not McCarthy, IIRC. And it was the studios that enforced it, not the members of the professions, who generally disliked the blacklist. In fact the person who was most completely "ostracized" socially due to the blacklist, was Elia Kazan, who named names for the HUAC.

[DinoDoc]

Is communism legal in the US?

Of course we just put them in zoos for people to marvel at something so odd and rare as a communist.

[Nubclear]

But how can you when there are sooo many evil communists in the US?
Such as Wesely Clark