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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
ONLY 10%?? Find me an arab country where 10% is christian!
As if 6 millions of arabs weren't enough to cause problems in a country of 60- that means that in the last 20 years, 10 millions of european-frenchmen just disappeared? What will happen in 2050 then
I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
You know, I'm concerned about the outcome of this war, because we did the right thing for the wrong reason.
But I also know that Americans tend to look for result through influence of our "instant gratification" culture. This process of reconstruction will take years, people -- not months.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
Re: Re: Re: Re: US being driven out of Islamic world
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
But if there's too much widespread resistance, we have to go back to point one of the lesson - you **** with us a little on our turf, and we will **** with you a hundred or a thousand fold.
It's their turf. You're the invader.
And these chickenhawks aren't militarists by a long shot. I think their approach has been half-hearted and half-assed from the beginning.
As armchair generals go, you're certainly one of the most aggressive. Sorta like Curtis Lemay on steroids.
I live in Mexico, so most of the media I see is non-American. I've also done Iraq - not in this goround, but last time. There's no monolithic "the media" - that's the crap for ideologues. There are many subsets, and "reality" is always a bit deeper than leftist or rightist ideology.
If you put media coverage of Bush's War on a continum, with Al Jazeera on one end and Fox News at the other, all American networks are pretty close to the Fox end. They're too scared of being accused of being labled
"unpatriotic" to give the American public the straight goods.
British, Canadian and much European media coverage is close to the middle, Russian and Chinese is closer to Al Jazeera. With the internet, there's no longer any excuse to get all your information from CNN. I'm sure that you don't do that, but your mind is pretty much made up.
Well, we all know who'll get the oil, now don't we?
You bet! The Iraqi people.
No diplomatic facilities anywhere can be protected if a terrorist or guerilla force really wants to hit them. It used to be a convention of civilized peoples that you don't **** with other country's embassies. (Just the nests of spies in them, if you can get ahold of any ) These guys don't play by any rules, in fact, they specialize in embassies (despite the fact that most casualties are 3rd nation innocents, not Americans) because they're symbolic targets that are by definition hard to protect, because they're in major urban centers and designed to be accessible.
Embassies in these kinds of wars have been targets for decades. You can't rationalize away the fact the American interests are LESS secure than when the "War on Terror" began.
Considering that when we started, the Taleban controlled 95% of the country, and al Qaeda practically swaggered around with impunity and gave live TV interviews. Now we don't see those smug mother****ers swaggering around, OBL, AAZ and Mullah Omar, if they're really alive, are hiding in the boonies afraid to make any direct communictation, lest we intercept it and nail their asses. Mohammed Atef went to Allah, and KSM and Ramsi Binalshibh are probably wishing they did about now, not to mention the hundreds of minor *******s we've killed or captured.
Well spoken, Leonid, er, MtG. Take a bow, comrade!
(b) Politically hamstrung, and any combat division of the US Army now has more firepower than all allied forces in 'Nam combined. Plus the Iraqis don't have neighboring superpowers supporting them, or decades of tunnel network construction. And it's a lot harder to hide in the terrain in Iraq.
Like Westy, you see war in terms of firepower. It's a conventional military concept for a conventional war. That phase is over, dude!
No neighboring superpower, true. But neither does the US have a colonial upper class, state institutions or an existing army to work with. They're alone in a desert full of enemies. Shades of Gordon!
Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios
Originally posted by Datajack Franit
ONLY 10%?? Find me an arab country where 10% is christian!
As if 6 millions of arabs weren't enough to cause problems in a country of 60- that means that in the last 20 years, 10 millions of european-frenchmen just disappeared? What will happen in 2050 then
Syria, Lebanon. Jordan is 6% Christian. By contrast, the EU average is 4% Muslim.
Anyway, why limit it to Arab countries? I'd guess at least half of the EU Muslim population is not Arabic; Turkish, Iranian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi.
In 1950, France had 42 million inhabitants. Now it has almost 60 million. There have been no 'disappearances'. France also has the highest birth rate in the EU, at 1.9 children per woman; almost at replacement levels.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: US being driven out of Islamic world
Originally posted by techumseh
It's their turf. You're the invader.
The general war, let's face it, is against uppity arab thugs, radical fundamental islamic thugs, etc. Just like they do the "an enemy of my enemy is my friend" thang, we do the "one enemy is as good as another whether they're really that cozy or not" thang.
As armchair generals go, you're certainly one of the most aggressive. Sorta like Curtis Lemay on steroids.
My generaling is chairborne, but it's derived from my sergeanting which was airborne, Ranger and Pathfinder. That lends itself to a precise focus on key issues and a lack of desire to waste time ****ing around. Oh, and LeMay had some good ideas, at least for an airedale puke.
If you put media coverage of Bush's War on a continum, with Al Jazeera on one end and Fox News at the other, all American networks are pretty close to the Fox end. They're too scared of being accused of being labled
"unpatriotic" to give the American public the straight goods.
British, Canadian and much European media coverage is close to the middle, Russian and Chinese is closer to Al Jazeera. With the internet, there's no longer any excuse to get all your information from CNN. I'm sure that you don't do that, but your mind is pretty much made up.
My mind was made up beforehand, when I opposed the war because I didn't think we were properly prepared for it, that withdrawal would never be an option, due to the encouragement that would give the *******s.
You bet! The Iraqi people.
But of course. We're doing it all for them. (and the fact we can get them to manipulate supplies for our benefit)
Embassies in these kinds of wars have been targets for decades. You can't rationalize away the fact the American interests are LESS secure than when the "War on Terror" began.
Not at all. At worst, they're no better, but that's somewhat silly, because both AQ and JI are operationally degraded to a great extent. September 10, 2001 and before, we had an illusion of greater security, but that was because a lot of people had their heads up there ass and really didn't figure that a few loonies would ratchet things up as much as they did. Two African embassies to the USS Cole to a multiple hijacking/kamikaze of major targets in the US was one hell of an escalation, but also one that could only have occurred in a relatively lax security and leadership environment.
Well spoken, Leonid, er, MtG. Take a bow, comrade!
Leonid never figured out quite what he was about in Afghanistan. Particularly, why would anyone familiar with "the great game" ever try to run the place? I guess he never read Tennyson or Kipling. We've already accomplished our primary goals in Afghanistan, so if it goes totally back to ****, frankly, it's no great loss from our perspective. I personally would like to see some actual nationbuilding and an expansion of central government control, but even if that never happens, the situation now, from our perspective, is a hell of a lot better than it was on September 10, 2001 or before.
Like Westy, you see war in terms of firepower. It's a conventional military concept for a conventional war. That phase is over, dude!
I never spent time with heavy or conventional units, so I don't see war as mass firepower. In my view, and this is my kind of fighting, war is about short-term overmatching of firepower based on mobility and real time intel.
The reason I want a couple of extra lightfighter divisions to take apart the Sunni triangle a town and section at a time is to rid the enemy of warfighting materiel, not to capture many of them per se, because they'll just blend. But force the bastards to have to resupply, and they'll move to supply caches, or supplies will be moved to them. Use UAV and tactial recon with night vision capability, wireless motion sensor nets dropped in the valley and marsh country, and along the border, and other toys of the unconventional warfare trade, and lots of local, independent, small rapid reaction forces to start carrying a counter-guerilla war to the specific *******s that are resisting us.
No neighboring superpower, true. But neither does the US have a colonial upper class, state institutions or an existing army to work with. They're alone in a desert full of enemies. Shades of Gordon!
Yeah, but we've got oil, so we can buy all that crap.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Originally posted by GePap
when you have the press ask for more freedom in the ME and miuslim world while still dealing with dictatorships in Central Asia that we use for the war in Afghanistan is the sort of mixed signal that undermines the whole message.
.
ah, so Bush mentioning Saudi and Egypt in a speech on democratization, with implied threat wrt support, isnt enough, now working with Uzbekistan undercuts the message. Just keep raising those goal posts higher and higher.
While I agree we cant keep up the relationship with Karimov in Uzbekistan indefinitely, I think we need to at least get a more stable situation in Afghanistan first.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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