Are you patriotic?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Odin
Patriotism and Nationalism are bad because it make people thnk their contry is more important then the rest of the world. I give alligence to no country, I am a citizen of Earth

and bull****.

I learned my debating skills from Fez

It has nothing to do with me thinking my country is more important.

And I'm tired of people telling me I shouldn't feel patriotic.

I'm sorry I don't hate my country like you lefties do. I try and try, but I just can't do it.

Let me put it this way. Unlike you brainwashed lefties. I am a free thinker. Being patriotic doesn't cause me to think a certain way. I am free to think any way I want. I don't support president Bush- even though I am patriotic. Because I have the ability to analyze each individual situation and come to my own conclusions.

Let me just say again for the lefties who don't understand. There is a difference between patriotism and blind patriotism.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Odin:

A country may be a pretty, alluring fallacy that we have all been brought up to love and serve [cough] diss [/cough], but it is a fallacy nonetheless, and it causes more harm than good to subdivide the human race into a series of nations. Arthur C Clarke puts it best when he says "there is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum".

I'm not done with this post yet.

I was not brought up to love my country. I went through public schools. We were not trained to love my country. And my father hated the goverment. He did not bring me up to love my country.

subdivide the human race into a series of nations? You imply that we were once whole, and someone just came through and divided things.

Some of you lefties really have no concept of how the world works, or human nature. I suggest studying history- specifically history when the humans switched from being hunter-gatherers to an agricultural society. This will teach you a thing or two about nations.

You lefties are in some dream world. Some of you need a reality check on how the world works, and the dark side of human nature.

I think it's time some of you realize that science fiction types have no better way to rule the world than warmongering republicans. Just because they are smart, doesn't mean they know anything about common sense.

[Dis]

P.S. I didn't serve in the military because I love my country.

You think I want to fight in some bull**** war by some warmongering republican? Not a chance.

I was in the military for the money and training. Oh, and to see the world.

[Dis]

I also love my state.

You know why?

Because it has better laws than other states. The same applies to my country. It is nice living in a country where I'm not persecuted for my beliefs. If every country were as good as the U.S. I would have no need to be patriotic would I?

I'm not patriotic out of reflex. I analyzed the laws in my country, and laws of other countries (and I have visited many countries in the navy), and have determined I like the laws in my country the best.

Case Closed!

[Whaleboy]

I'm sorry I don't hate my country like you lefties do. I try and try, but I just can't do it.

Strawman.

subdivide the human race into a series of nations? You imply that we were once whole, and someone just came through and divided things.

The human race, we divided ourselves according to opinions, religions, geographic location, colour. I fail to see why a state is any different.

I don't support president Bush- even though I am patriotic.

That goes without saying! You love your country, therefore you dont support Bush!

Let me just say again for the lefties who don't understand. There is a difference between patriotism and blind patriotism.

Just as their is a difference between "liking" ones nation, and loving it. For me, and only me I hasten to add, that difference is where one is willing to die or give service to that country. I like democracy (to a point) and freedom, I dont love it.

As you so elequently put it, patriotism is a leftist trait. Technically my non patriotism (individualism) is a conservative trait, though you can look at that in different ways of course.

I was not brought up to love my country. I went through public schools.

We all were. Imo its just a question of something finding the rare mental fortitude to resist it, which of course most lack. In that respect, I count myself lucky. Even in Britain where we don't have to worship the flag every morning in our state schools, we are still taught "British" values, conformist traits and a British-centric history. We didn't even learn about the Boar war until we were 15!!! I'm not even going to get started on what a sociologist might call a hidden curriculum! .

Some of you lefties really have no concept of how the world works, or human nature. I suggest studying history- specifically history when the humans switched from being hunter-gatherers to an agricultural society. This will teach you a thing or two about nations.

I happened to have spent a number of years studying history and taking an interest in anthropology. Fortunately, I have also taken in interest in philosophy as well, which has taught my not to blindly accept the world as it is, and work with a model that is falling apart at the seams, but fight for a better world, or at least conceptualise it. I leave it to the narrow minded idiots to impliment this of course, thats not my concern, but the fact that my ideas are "unrealistic" and against human nature at this time does not serve as a refutation of their validity. Incidentally, "human nature" as one might simplistically call that highly complex idea, is changing. 10'000 years ago, we would have all raped and murdered by now, or been murdered. Now I, for one, find both of those ideas repugnant. Imagine a world where this team sport mentality is confined to the stadium.

Just because they are smart, doesn't mean they know anything about common sense.

Originally posted by Albert Einstein
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

also love my state.

You know why?

Because it has better laws than other states. The same applies to my country. It is nice living in a country where I'm not persecuted for my beliefs. If every country were as good as the U.S. I would have no need to be patriotic would I?

I'm not patriotic out of reflex. I analyzed the laws in my country, and laws of other countries (and I have visited many countries in the navy), and have determined I like the laws in my country the best.

Then you like your state. Thats not patriotism unless you define yourself by your state, which requires love as it is irrational. Its ok, you can justify that by the human condition. When people call me inhuman, I take it as a compliment!

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Monk
Osama Bin Laden loves USA more than I like DK

What? You good-for-nothing-Dane. Take pride in the country that gave the world Lego bricks, ombudsmen and Aqua. The one and only country with a higher population of pigs than people. And remember to vote no every time they ask you!

That's among the reasons I hate it... vote yes, and it's going to turn out ok... Danes is just a bunch of nay-sayers... Everytime I tell people to diss the queen, they always say no
(It's a queen we've got, isn't it?)

...and about this pig thingy:

The reason we've got a higher pop of pigs than people is because most people are pigs

[Dis]

well love is a strong word.

Can someone love an inanimate thing like a country? countries really only exist in the minds of men (and women).

I just like it a lot. I believe it works (for the most part) and would defend it against attack. I would not wage offensive war I consider unjust.

And yes I do try to be optimistic, and think eventually we can move beyond countries.

[Whaleboy]

Lets say that one would consider it so important to oneself that one would fight and die for it. I call it love, but obviously that term varies more from person to person that perhaps any other.

I don't define myself by my country. I dont support sports teams, my home town or my nation. I take an objective view in past, present and future wars. I do not see why my, or British values are necessarily better because I either hold them, or live in a society where they are held. I consider myself human, until we make contact with an alien race, where I would consider myself sentient. Scratch that, I don't use that "high watermark" approach, i.e., British, -> European, -> Jewish -> White, -> Human -> Sentient -> Existing, rather instead of these fluctuating labels, I merely say that I am me. The only label that can be applied to me is "Ben Joseph Elijah", I believe in nothing else.

[Sandman]

The thing which annoys me about patriotism is the fact that it is basically conditioned into people, like Pavlov's dogs.

That feeling you get when you see your flag and the national anthem. It's nothing magical. It's just your brain pumping a load of feel-good chemicals into your blood. Like it has been trained to do. Like a damned salivating dog.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Sandman
The thing which annoys me about patriotism is the fact that it is basically conditioned into people, like Pavlov's dogs.

That feeling you get when you see your flag and the national anthem. It's nothing magical. It's just your brain pumping a load of feel-good chemicals into your blood. Like it has been trained to do. Like a damned salivating dog.

Nicely put.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Sandman
That feeling you get when you see your flag and the national anthem. It's nothing magical. It's just your brain pumping a load of feel-good chemicals into your blood. Like it has been trained to do. Like a damned salivating dog.

Whenever I hear the national anthem, I always end up feeling annoyed...

...I don't even remember it, but when I hear it, I recognize it...

[Az]

Nationalism ain't good. But it sure is better than caring for oneself, and not trying to improve the world as much as possible.

[Whaleboy]

That feeling you get when you see your flag and the national anthem. It's nothing magical. It's just your brain pumping a load of feel-good chemicals into your blood. Like it has been trained to do. Like a damned salivating dog.

But it sure is better than caring for oneself, and not trying to improve the world as much as possible.

One can do both. Indeed, because I am not nationalistic or patriotic, I am more inclined to care for others beyond that fallacious distinction.

[Hippi]

hell no.

nationalism is stupid

[Inverse Icarus]

no, but i love my country.