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attic greek 'upsilon'

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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Andy-Man
    alp-ha
    (...)
    delt-a
    eps-i-lon


    I thought it was: al-pha, del-ta, and e-psi-lon?

    But maybe my Attic Greek has sunk to basement level. More than five years have passed since I last read something Greek.

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    • #32
      It figures that the one thread Agathon would actually be useful in had to pop up after he left...
      KH FOR OWNER!
      ASHER FOR CEO!!
      GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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      • #33
        noone has actually heard an ancient greek talk so we are the closest there is when it comes to pronunciation. of course ther ehave been changes during a 2,500 years history of a language (DUUUUH) but about the CORRECT way to pronounce it in classic ATTIC greek there are only educated guesses.

        hower since the language evolves like a breathing living thing it is quote possible that sounds of letters that were redudnant have been eliminated or altered.


        so if we take that website as an approach thjink of deutschland Uber alles to get a picture of the sound, i guess you've heard that somewhere?


        also what keygen said, it's COMBINATIONS of the ypsilon which produce completely different sounds, they are correct and the same in old and modern greek.

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        • #34
          Using modern Greek as a pronunciation guide may help you understand Turkish, but it will do little to increase your knowledge of classical Greek.
          KH FOR OWNER!
          ASHER FOR CEO!!
          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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          • #35
            uh oh...
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

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            • #36
              greek has nothing to do with turkish. especially in pronounciation but in general as well.
              of course there are some turkish words in greek and many mor egreek words in turkish. however after the liberation there was a cleansing of the language and many turkish words were replaced by the greek onces.

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              • #37
                also note that this german umlaut for example? it's not necessairily it.

                when english/german/french whathaveyou scholars tried to figure out the pronunciation of greek they necesairly were based in their own languages and the sounds they happened to have available.

                this can not always give the best results.


                en passant, u have to take etymology in all this as well what does ypsilon mean? it means i high. it could be an umlaut, but it could be a high picthed iota.
                thats why i always joked with one of my non greek friends when he talked greek. i told him you talk like a barbarian

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                • #38
                  kai to sxisomatiko koloamerikanaki exoristo stin iaponia ton pernei asyyyystola

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                  • #39
                    forgot to say a funny thing en surveillant.
                    greek and turkish language was segregated as were the people.

                    however turks didnt have a knac for foreign languages and were generally a bit layed back.
                    so most of the diplomats of the ottoman empire were educated greeks who they could speak other foreign languages as well turkish. now i admit it wasnt very smart to put as a mediator between the ottoman empire and the rest of europe a greek but thats what was happening.

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                    • #40
                      Hmmmm... some deleted posts...

                      Stick on topic... and take your little childish games somewhere else... because I'm not going to put up with them anymore.
                      Keep on Civin'
                      RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by The Andy-Man

                        most of that is modern greek... (alpha upsilon sounding like 'f'!!! in attic is would sound like out
                        Actually the basic pronouncing of letters and words haven't change at all from Antiquity to Modern age.

                        Perhaps my English knowledge isn't much sophisticated and can't think of the actual correspondence of Greek letters to the English ones - if any - for all letters but " AY " would not sound like out for sure. There were lot of dialects in Ancient Greece but from Classic age and after the preferable dialect for writers was Attic.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by The Andy-Man

                          the modern greeks have barbarised it from the little of it i have heard.
                          Indeed, though I would call it "simplified"

                          Actually the most simplification on letter level took place around 20 years ago when some punctuation marks indicating the exact pronnouncing of some vowels were removed. I only had the chance to learn them in the first classes of priliminary school and for a couple of years in High school doing some Ancient Greek which is a mandatory lesson for some years know

                          There might be some difference in how long or short is a vowel between Ancient and Modern Greek (again not sure for the English grammar terminology for long vowels) but the basic pronouncing is the same. It certainly doesn't change " AY " to out as Andy-Man suggested but there might be the case in some other dialects, but not Attic.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

                            Using modern Greek as a pronunciation guide may help you understand Turkish, but it will do little to increase your knowledge of classical Greek.
                            This troll will surely help you overcome some of your complex regarding history

                            If modern Greek is useful to understand modern Turkish then I guess English will be a good guide to understand Mongolic

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by paiktis22

                              of course there are some turkish words in greek and many mor egreek words in turkish.
                              Still, they were and they are Turkish and not Greek despite the fact that they were - and some still are - spoken in Greece.

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                              • #45
                                If " E " precedes (EY) it depends on what consonant follows the two vowels. Most of the times is pronounced like an " f " a bit longer though (or what ever is the grammatical terminology). If " B " follows it sounds more like " ev ".
                                To make it precise, EY and AY are pronounced "eph" and "aph" only if they precede theta, kappa, ksi, pi, tau, chi, psi. All other consonants and all vowels turn them into "ev' and "av".

                                If an accent is applied to the first vowel or if the ¨ are used on the second vowel, the combination is broken and the two vowels are spelled separately.

                                In modern greek, iota, eta, ypsilon, omikron-iota, epsilon-iota are pronounced the same and the correct spelling is derived out of context. The latest grammatical rules tend to change alot of eta's and ypsilon's into iotas for simplicity. In ancient greek, as there are 3 kinds of accents and 3 kinds of hyphens, discrimination between those is crucial.
                                "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
                                George Orwell

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