What are we doing about Afghanistan?

[chequita guevara]

Observers?

[DeathByTheSword]

yes well to find them soldiers go door-to-door...i have heard stories about a area that was peacefull for 3 months and a lot was rebuild or was starting to work...then the soldiers came to look for terrorist when they left 3 month of work was destroyed...

[Pekka]

che, Yes. That's all we can do, according our laws and resources right now. We're doing 100% of what we can/are allowed. I'm sorry, if 100% if not enough. I wish we really could do much more.

And all of this flies and misses the point of this whole thread anyway.

So, you pay some taxes. Remember, if there is monetary aid to Afghanistan etc etc, it's from my tax money if it's from EU or some other organisations. What's your point? That you pay 50 dollars more than me? Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? Are you now some kind of hero, the saviour of Afghanistan? Why don't you stop saying we too, and get your ass to Afghanistan, I'm sure recruiters will have a look at you, and then you can say that to me. Right?

[Pekka]

And if you really want to be complicated about it, I buy American products all the time. Right now, I'm drinking Coke. Some of that money goes to that too.
My mom pays taxes there like everyone else, and I'm her son, so in theory, that gives me some voice, or then you must agree, that every kid in America can't say a word either, they aren't paying taxes, except from products, but so am I! And their parents are the ones really paying taxes, but so is mine! HHa!
And I assure you, that if it was possible for me to go there and join, I would in a heartbeat. Which is not what could be said of you, since you're not obviously going.

Anyway, don't you agree this is pretty much pointless? Argue about the issues, not one insignificant word.

[Lord Merciless]

You can't change people's mind by pointing a gun at their heads. It takes time to ditch traditions.

[Pekka]

Lord Merciless, agreed, but we could start from warlords. Theyt understand the gun point talk . Take it from there..

[DeathByTheSword]

LM is probably right...but I totally agree with Pekka that it has to change...but what is the right way to do that?

[Pekka]

right way.. who knows for sure. Sure is, that the place is not under control, and we (yes che, we) need to take it under control first..

[Pekka]

che, accept my apologies.. I'm sorry. I got too heated.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
You can't change people's mind by pointing a gun at their heads. It takes time to ditch traditions.

Right, that's essentially my point too.

Also, we can't go "door to door" there... perhaps "mud hut to cave entrance".

[Pekka]

Shogun Gunner, no you can't go door to door.. that's why you take the warlords by the nuts and squeeze the information out. They know much more than they let us know.

[BeBMan]

As far as I understand it, the current idea seems to be to get some "safe" (errm better: relatively safe) zones like Kabul, and extent them slowly with the help of the UN and ISAF forces, with US troops remaining there to go against active resistors or taleban leftovers who show up for open fights. This would hopefully bring more stabilization, it would hopefully reduce slowly the power of the warlords, and maybe then there´s a chance of an economic change away from the drug business to a more "civil" economy.

As much as I hope this would work, there is absolutely no guarantee that it really will. And even if this works, it will be a long, painful, and expensive way, which would need long-term engagement of western countries in both military aspects and in giving financial aid -- an engagement that isn´t guaranteed either.

[Pekka]

BeBro, that's the plan? Ok.. sounds ok to me. I didn't know about these plans.

I'm pleased. I hope it works in the longer term. Now, we need to get rid of those opium fields...

[Gangerolf]

the problem with going after the warlords is they hold the population hostage. if civilians get hurt in the process you'll lose a lot of goodwill. just like in iraq

[Pekka]

Gangerolf, true.. it's not as simple as I put it out.. I guess we could work on making those safe zones, give chance to warlord one by one, if they even think about taking the people hostage, we get them to safe zone if possible and get in there to take the lordies out. I don't know. What's the official plan on these guys? Or unofficial? The one that doesn't consider them friends?