A Hypothesis On Conservatives and Liberals

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Oh no! It's the commie-nazis...

See, when I posted my "hahaha!" thread, this is the type of stuff I'm looking for

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i still like my classification best of all, and besides, it's the only correct one.

wrong (leftist) -- moderate -- wrong (rightist)

Fair enough. Do I get to be the moderate?

[Q Classic]

dp

[Q Classic]

as long as you agree with me.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

being moderate doesn't mean that you can't be arsed to take a position.

being moderate means that you're actually willing to listen to both sides of the argument, and try to find a common ground that will actually work.

I'm touched that someone else understands where I'm coming from -- sniff, sniff.

[chequita guevara]

Nobody understand where you're coming from.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Progressives are like liberals with spinal cords. Here you find the activists, socialists, social democrats.

Yes, they're Chordates, but have yet to show any signs of meaningful mid and upper brain development. They do have a well developed whine reflex, though.

I put moderates on the right side because they are actually fundimentally conservative: opposed to rapid change, don't rock the boat, apathetics.

Actually, that's because you don't understand moderates. Moderates are opposed to "rapid change to prove we're actually doing something, regardless of whether or not rapid change is actually useful, or is doing more immediate harm than good as a result of the instability created."

Moderates are also not into rocking the boat just to show you can rock the boat, and thereby capsize the ****ing thing and drown everybody on board.

Moderates also aren't apathetic, we just don't foam at the mouth, get our whiskey and guns and have a cleaning party until we can't tell if we were usin' the Jack Daniels Old No. 7 for cleanin' and the Hoppe's No. 9 for drinkin', or was it s'pose to be the other way 'roun, diphead?

Nor do we proclaim "free love" while mixing Molotov cocktails in the kitchen sink and singing the Internationale.

Moderates never sound that good to the masses, because unlike ideologues, we realize that things really don't fit into nice 30 second sound bites, and also unlike ideologues, we'd prefer people to actually think about public policy and apply some intelligence, not just prance or goosestep in tune to the latest pronouncements from our ideological "leaders."

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Well maybe its about time we had another. Lord knows you people need your clocks cleaned.

"We are a band of brothers, native to the soil,
fighting for our liberty with treasure, blood and toil...."

[SlowwHand]

Ditto.

[Kuciwalker]

I see what sloww is saying, and che is missing the point. (I'm going to use "radical" to mean "extreme", ok? I don't care about the technical definition.) The thing is, you look at the chain (insert more in-betweens as you will):

"extreme left" -- "left" -- "moderate/middle" -- "conservative" -- "extreme conservative"

The extreme left are the communists, and the extreme right are the fascists (I'll look at Libertarians in a moment). While it seems that they would be different, if you look at examples of fascism and communism, the only apparent difference is their propaganda. This is sloww's point. In implementation, communism and fascism are the same. Thus "extreme left" and "extreme right" are linked.

Now, looking at Libertarianism. Libertarianism is basically a right-wing (capitalist) anarchy . While technically there is a left-wing equivalent, it is inane (to paraphrase Sava, "everyone will be nice and happy to everyone else and sing Kumbaya and crap"). So, libertarianism lies attached to "right" and hanging off the circle.

[MrFun]

extreme left (burn all teddy bears and tear down all crosses) -- moderate (respects teddy bears and crosses) -- extreme right (shove teddy bears and crosses in everyone's faces!!!!!!)

[Berzerker]

This view leads to nothing being done except civil wars .

Those civil wars wouldn't happen if the damn moderates would take a position.

The only way a linear spectrum can reflect reality is if totalitarianism is at one end and anarchism is at the other.
That's why the Nolan grid shows communism and fascism in the same corner, because both are very autocratic in nature and should be together on a linear spectrum.

"Moderates" - a quite ambiguous term which means "liberal" on some issues and "conservative" on others (Gee, I'll join you out on that limb) - would be the "center". Liberals lean toward personal freedoms while typically opposing economic freedoms, and social conservatives lean toward economic freedoms while opposing personal freedoms they don't like. The result is both these groups love big government when it serves their desire to remove the freedoms they don't like.

Economic conservatives are right wing since they emphasize economic freedoms and generally support personal freedoms, liberals and social conservatives are left wing for their shared desire to remove one set of freedoms while preserving freedoms they cherish.

The linear spectrum from left to right:

totalitarianism - fascism, communism
democratic socialism - just a bit more extreme than liberalism
liberalism/social conservatism
"moderate" - the "center"
economic conservatism
libertarianism
anarchism

[Nubclear]

So now I'm a moderate?!

[MrFun]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Berzerker


"Moderates" - a quite ambiguous term which means "liberal" on some issues and "conservative" on others (Gee, I'll join you out on that limb) - would be the "center". Liberals lean toward personal freedoms while typically opposing economic freedoms, and social conservatives lean toward economic freedoms while opposing personal freedoms they don't like. The result is both these groups love big government when it serves their desire to remove the freedoms they don't like.
QUOTE]

I'm not quite sure I agree with you on this . . . . .

[David Floyd]

Obviously, I'm going to agree with Berzerker's grid.

I'd just point out that no, of course communists and Nazis aren't the same thing, except that they have the same fundamental belief in totalitarianism, and are anti-individual freedom.