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Republicans Stab Soldiers in the Back . . . Again!

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  • Republicans Stab Soldiers in the Back . . . Again!

    Congress nixes extra pay for some troops

    - - - - - - - - - - - -
    By KEN GUGGENHEIM

    Oct. 29, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- House-Senate negotiators considering an $87 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan have rejected a Democratic proposal to compensate federal employees on active duty with the National Guard and reserves.

    The proposal by Sen. **** Durbin, D-Ill., would have made up the differences between the workers' regular salaries and their service incomes, as many states and private employers are already doing. He said 23,000 federal employees would be affected.

    The Senate had included the provision in its version of the Iraq spending bill, but senators in the conference agreed to eliminate it Tuesday in a 16-13 vote that was mainly along party lines.

    Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, said Durbin's legislation would create a disparity between the pay of guardsmen and reservists and those of active-duty personnel. He said other congressional committees should consider the proposal before it is approved.

    Senate and House leaders hope to finish work Wednesday resolving differences between the versions of the bill approved by the House and Senate.

    "I don't think we're too far apart on too many issues," said Rep. Bill Young, R-Fla., chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

    The biggest difference is a Senate provision to make part of the package in the form of loans. President Bush has threatened to veto the bill if the loans are included in the final package. Some Republican senators who supported the loans acknowledged they had little hope of prevailing.

    "I don't have the vote totals on it, but my sense is they probably have located the votes to get the package" without loans, said Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., a participant in the House-Senate conference meeting Tuesday.

    Another Republican senator who supported the loans, Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, said she wasn't optimistic. She said failing to include the loans "would be very unfortunate."

    "I think that public support for the package would be boosted by having some provisions for the loans," she said.

    The Senate version of the bill included $18.4 billion for reconstruction of public works and for security but would require Iraq to repay about half of that unless other countries forgave 90 percent of the debt Iraq ran up under Saddam Hussein, deposed as president by U.S. troops. The House version includes $18.6 billion, none of which would have to be repaid.

    The bulk of both bills, about $66 billion, would pay for U.S. military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    The White House and Republican congressional leaders strongly oppose loans, saying Iraq already is too deeply indebted and has no government with authority to borrow more money. Another argument has been that loans secured by Iraq's vast oil reserves could support claims of war opponents that the United States went to war to tap into Iraq's oil wealth.

    At a news conference Tuesday, Bush said the administration was working hard with lawmakers "to make the case that it's very important for us not to saddle Iraq with a bunch of debt early in the emergence of a market-oriented economy, an economy that had been wrecked by Mr. Saddam Hussein."

    The Senate had voted 51-47 to convert part of the rebuilding funds into loans. Although the House did not include loans in its package, it supported the concept in a 277-139 nonbinding vote.

    Supporters of loans said their case was strengthened last week when much of the $13 billion in new aid pledged at an international donor's conference was made as loans.

    Also Tuesday, negotiators agreed to add $100 million for the search for conventional weapons stockpiles in Iraq. U.S. military commanders have said many of the explosives used in attacks against American forces have come from supplies taken from former Iraqi military bases.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

  • #2
    were they suppose to makeup the difference?

    Comment


    • #3
      National Guard and Reserves? Is that your problem?
      Or is it the "loans" to Iraq?
      I'm seeing 2 things, though I'm probably mistaken; and even if I'm not, I don't think I have a problem with the nixing.

      Here's why.
      Why just Reservists and National Guard, if that's a point.
      If the point is loans to Iraq, I can hear the outcry were they have to done that.


      Or do i just not understand?




      And the answer is crocodiles.
      I knew deep down, you really wanted to know.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

      Comment


      • #4
        "The proposal by Sen. **** Durbin, D-Ill., would have made up the differences between the workers' regular salaries and their service incomes, as many states and private employers are already doing. He said 23,000 federal employees would be affected."

        Yup, the Republicans love our soldiers so much they're helping their families into poverty.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think that amount should be made up. It would create a pay disparity between the reserves and other soldiers.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment


          • #6
            Where's the pressure on the private employers and/or States that are not ?
            And if it's done for those personnel covered by NOT, do we relieve companies and States who are currently meeting the difference?
            Another outcry goes up.

            And besides THAT, you're just pissed off about your reservist friends that got fooled.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              You had the answer right in the text

              "Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, said Durbin's legislation would create a disparity between the pay of guardsmen and reservists and those of active-duty personnel."

              Since you're not ex military, maybe you cant see the dissension in the ranks it would cause to have different pay scales for the same job.
              We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
              If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
              Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

              Comment


              • #8
                oh, i thought it was about bush saying the "mission accomplished" banner behind him on the uss abe lincoln wasn't his media staff's doing, but rather a bunch of people on the carrier.
                B♭3

                Comment


                • #9
                  I guess they should have worked for Haliburton.
                  Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And I wouldn't go and make a lot of "loans" to Iraq.
                    Hell. You sat right here and said it was over oil.
                    If Iraq is so damned rich with oil, let them give us "loans".
                    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yup, it's okay for America's soldiers to be nobly sacrificed, but taxing the rich is an unfair burden.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm split on this issue...

                          On one side of the coin 23,000 American SOLDIERS (though reservest and NG) may (or may not) have families at home with financial problems because their work does not compensate for their slaray differences, and that sucks. What kind of job wouldn't do that!? I can see some one who is self employed/buisness owner not getting this, but then they are probably rich already. All others I feel bad for.

                          On the other side of the coin the Reservists have been getting paid for their 1 weekend a month +1 week a year plus for their regular job, some of them for a while now. If they didn't plan for the possibility that being in Arm Forces may mean going to war than that is just stupid on their part, and should of been counting both salaries as one salary if the knew one would disappear when called to perform a duty they signed up for and have been getting paid for... (not even going to touch on the fact that many Reservists I know are there for the GI bill for their kids).

                          I don't know.

                          They are serving their country and are being paid for it. Their families should be effected any more by it. Yet, they felt they could take advantage of the government, when they couln't....

                          I just don't know.
                          Monkey!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Reservists can only be deployed for 270 days on a single , and they know that they can be called to active duty and deployed at any time.

                            Regulars can be deployed indefinitely, and they (along with reservists) know what the pay scales are. Their families don't take it any easier, and it costs the same to live, whether you're a regular or a reservist. Regulars (especially those with families) just have a generally lower standard of living.

                            Seeing reservists get preferentially taken care of will just breed a huge amount of resentment among the regulars, who are the backbone of the occupation force, the backbone of all the combat capability throughout the military.

                            If you're going to increase pay, do it across the board, not preferentially for some reservists who have a particular kind of regular employment.
                            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just to pile on che (), it would be a horrible idea to increase the pay for the reservists and not for the other branches of the military. It should be an across the board pay increase.

                              Che, any response? Or do you know you've been bested and just turned tail and ran .
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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