34 Dead as Baghdad Bombers Hit Red Cross, Police

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Fez


Your arrogance doesn't convince anybody.

And your lies are more than retarded... showing how developed your mind is.

Are you aware of the etymology of "arrogance", pocho?

And why would you think I care one whit about convincing anybody, especially on line. I state my views, and I frankly don't give a damn what people do with them from there.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Are you aware of the etymology of "arrogance", pocho?

And why would you think I care one whit about convincing anybody, especially on line. I state my views, and I frankly don't give a damn what people do with them from there.

Then good for you. I ****ing hate you... you know that?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Clinton was not a chickenhawk, because he opposed the war he would have been called upon to fight.

Clinton is a chicken choker, and a chicken, at least, because he weaseled out. It doesn't matter if I "oppose" a war when I'm in uniform - if I get orders to go, I go.

In Clinton's case, if he'd stuck around and opposed the draft, like a number of people did and went to prison for, at least Clinton could be considered to have the courage of his convictions, no pun intended. If he'd just sat around and took his chances, even as I-A draft bait, the worst he'd do in any year during 'Nam was about 110/365 on getting his day picked. He could have done a bull**** job like joining the Navy, and using his college and test scores to make the cut when a lot of other draft bait wouldn't have.

But Clinton always kept an eye out for his own ass, and he was too precious to deal with the knuckledragging babykiller set, despite his political ambitions, so he wormed it. Having done so, he should at least have had the decency to stick to being a governor or being in Congress. His handling of the military in general, from his little yuppie staff's overt rudeness to uniformed personnel, to the FUBAR in Somalia, to the PR driven way he played into and out of the Balkans, to the defense budgets, to handling Bin Laden in the Cole and embassy bombings era, to the endless NFZ enforcement dance with Hussein, was mediocre in it's best moments to disastrous in his worst.

So Clinton may not be a chickenhawk, but that certainly doesn't elevate him in my book.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Fez


Then good for you. I ****ing hate you... you know that?

I've got some boots you can polish.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


They also had a political system/culture that could absorb a much higher casualty rate. Their KIA over 9 years was about 5 soldiers per day, while the American KIA in Iraq is roughly 1 per day so far, but with an increasing intensity the latest weeks. Are you sure you can take five more years of that?

We shouldn't be taking it now. We should add about two divisions (rest of 82 ABD and get Tropical Lightning off their lard asses in Hawaii) and start systematically ass-****ing the Sunni triangle until we root out and kill these *******s.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


We shouldn't be taking it now. We should add about two divisions (rest of 82 ABD and get Tropical Lightning off their lard asses in Hawaii) and start systematically ass-****ing the Sunni triangle until we root out and kill these *******s.

Sorry Michael, but I don't think you can win a guerilla war by killing everyone who hate you. For every hater you kill, you will get 2-10 new haters. To win this war you have to win the hearts of the Iraqi people, not send chock infantry who will just make them hate you more.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, I am not sure I understand you. Are you objecting to the concept of Vietnamization or just its execution. If you are objecting to the concept, what is your alternative?

WRT Vietnam Vietnamization, it was just an excuse. If we announced and immediate withdrawal, then all of the g**ks would have been shooting at us, instead of just the overtly commie ones. We had to give the functionaries who were too far below the Thieu and Ky levels to buy their way out the delusion that they would be able to maintain their security situation vis-a-vis the NVA.

We also had to cater to the egos of the peanuts like Thieu and Ky, so we never put our boots up their asses to make meaningful structural reforms in the government and the ARVN officer corps.

None of the political sideshows apply in Iraq.

Cut and run?

Is that the exit strategy you advocate?

Or do you oppose an exit strategy?

Your posts are very unclear on what you favor.

The "exit strategy" has already been defined for us by Georgie "Bring it on" Bush. He put the US credibility on the line even before the invasion with all that yammering about beacons of hope and democracy.

So we're stuck covering the check his mouth wrote. Anything less, and we convince our enemies that we have nothing other than a little initial flash of firepower, behind which there is no substance, no staying power, and neither vision nor sincerity. Do you want to give our enemies that kind of a present?

So we're stuck, if if costs us a thousand dead and another hundred billion, or if the costs go up well beyond that, we're stuck with carrying out miracle man's proclaimed vision.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


Sorry Michael, but I don't think you can win a guerilla war by killing everyone who hate you. For every hater you kill, you will get 2-10 new haters. To win this war you have to win the hearts of the Iraqi people, not send chock infantry who will just make them hate you more.

Grab 'em by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow.

There's three types of Iraqis in the Sunni triangle. Those who hate us and are loyal to the Baath party. Only thing to do with them is kill 'em.

Those who may hate us, but fear the Baath party and are unsure which way the chips are going to fall, so they stay non-committal.

Those who support us. With the latter two, we need to give them reasons to stay on our side, but we also need to be able to dictate the location and tempo of operations to the *******s, not have them play hit and run with us at will.

If we can't demonstrate to the last two groups that we can contain and eliminate the first one, they're not going to be won over by any happy horse**** we do for them.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
we're stuck with carrying out miracle man's proclaimed vision.

That's the Republican strategy.

[Chemical Ollie]

Grabbing them by the balls is the Russian way - But it did not work in Afghanistan, and it is not working in Chetnya (sp?). It will not work in Iraq either.

If you have any quality of your intelligence, sure. But if not, every innocent killed has the potential of creating several terrorists urging for revenge.

The mission was called "Iraqi Freedom" but both you and I know that was just political bull****. The "army vs army" part of the war did not show the Iraqi people you were liberators, but rather evil invadors. Numerous journalists reported of incidents where jumpy Marines started shooting at guys from their own unit, and the guys who were shot at by their friends killed every civilian on sight just to make sure, including 5-year old kids. The occupation part has not been much better. I've read about Iraqis who have been killed at road blocks just for not speaking English. I know your opinion is that a soldier should shoot first and ask the questions later, but that is not really a way to win any civilian hearts, is it?

[Ned]

I think it is a trap to think we can win a guerilla war in a foreign country by firepower alone. We need the people on our side. The best way to get the people on our side is for them to have their own government and their own army. They would be fighting for Iraq and not just for a US occupation force.

The talk I am now hearing from MtG and from Clark and Dean about sending in more US troops has got me worried. Bush has got to take a stand on getting our troops out, IMHO. Rumsfeld is talking this way already. But Bush still talks as if Iraq is the frontline on the war on terror. The problem really is Saddam and his Ba'ath party and the Sunni resistance. There are many in the Arab world who will continue to support Saddam for as long as it takes, IMO.

[Bereta_Eder]

Is it true that American soldiers have begun killing themselves because of the pressure?

[Kuciwalker]

[Bereta_Eder]

Suicides at the Gates of Bagdhat as the Iraqi Information Minister said. Only with a time delay?

[Kuciwalker]

Suicides at the Gates of Bagdhat as the Iraqi Information Minister said. Only with a time delay?

You listen to what he says?!