34 Dead as Baghdad Bombers Hit Red Cross, Police

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Of course, Che, the truth hurts.

Must be why you avoid it then.

[Ned]

MtG, I must admit, I do not understand your hostility to Vietnamization. I think that that is exactly what we need now in Iraq. What real objection do you have to building up the Iraqi military and withdrawing?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, I must admit, I do not understand your hostility to Vietnamization. I think that that is exactly what we need now in Iraq. What real objection do you have to building up the Iraqi military and withdrawing?

Right now is not a good idea because the new Iraqi army isn't even close to being ready.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Must be why you avoid it then.

Che, let's drop this and discuss solutions, not vendettas.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Che, let's drop this and discuss solutions, not vendettas.

I'm Italian. We live for vendetta's.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Right now is not a good idea because the new Iraqi army isn't even close to being ready.

Agreed. But we must, I submit, continue to say that this is our plan and actually implement it. I, for one, do not want to see US troops in Iraq indefinitely. Again, I agree with the Dems that Bush's problem is that he seems to have abandoned the idea of getting out of Iraq.

The idea that some Democrats have suggested in turning this over to the UN is also unavailing in that the UN has already virtually pulled out of Iraq. The UN is good only at "police" actions, at best. War is not something the UN can do. Even de Villepin today has said that a US pullout from Iraq would be catastophic.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Five years of ****ing around then leaving under essentially the same conditions is not "determination" although it might be "single-minded"

And for all of Nixon's "great" "efforts" (since he was the proto-chicken-hawk, managing to find a billet as a stateside government lawyer in WW2),

Ok - MTG.

So, since you like to toss around the term chicken hawk. Am I one? You must know by now that im a hawk on Iraq. I never served in the military. Im too old too now. I was within a few miles of the Pentagon on 9/11, but by that definition Wolfie wouldnt be a chicken hawk. Evidently that doesnt count. Strangely enough even Wolfie coming under fire in Iraq hasnt de-chickened him.

So - do I have no right to express my opinions on Iraq? Am i a chicken hawk?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Right now is not a good idea because the new Iraqi army isn't even close to being ready.

They speak arabic, they know the local culture, etc. I suspect we have waited TOO long to use them. The people in Iraq, from top to bottom, seem to be complaining that we're not giving them enough opportunity to defend themselves.

[chequita guevara]

Turning the situation over to the U.N. will not likely result is dramatically lower numbers of troops, though it would likely increase the number of countries willing to send troops. Also, the U.N. has a bit more experience putting devestated countries back together. It would reduce anger towards us in the Arab world, thus decreasing the potential pool of terrorist requits. Finally, it wouldn't cost us so much at a time when this war is a financial drain.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
MtG, I must admit, I do not understand your hostility to Vietnamization. I think that that is exactly what we need now in Iraq. What real objection do you have to building up the Iraqi military and withdrawing?

I know a bit more about the subject of Vietnamization than you will ever read in history books, Ned. I spent the better part of a decade actively involved in Agent Orange and other Vietnam related veteran's disability issues. "Vietnamization" was a complete and utter fraud, and there was absolutely no reason other than national ego and posturing (that convinced nobody of import) to squader another 20,000 and more American lives, let alone countless Vietnamese lives. What were we worried about? That the commies would overrun Saigon?

Comparing Iraq to Vietnam, and purported exit strategies for the two conflicts is braindead. The only similarities is that there are an unspecified number of non-white people who don't like us and who are occasionally expressive of that fact. The rest of it is like comparing apples to martian soil samples.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

So - do I have no right to express my opinions on Iraq? Am i a chicken hawk?

If you're a policy maker willing to send other people to die to do a job you found it "inconvenient" to your personal plans to do when it was your time, and you give more credence to advice from similar non-serving ideologues who also found their personal ambitions too precious to risk getting their balls shot off, while giving short shrift to advice from professionals who've had their lives on the line, then you are a chickenhawk.

[lord of the mark]

More evidence that the attacks were by AQ terrorists

"Each vehicle used in the attacks on the International Red Cross headquarters and four Iraqi police stations was loaded with 1,000 pounds of plastic explosives, the official said. The explosives are being traced by the FBI (news - web sites) and are believed to have originated outside of Iraq.


Prior to Monday, a series of bombings in Iraq used old Soviet-era munitions, rocket-propelled grenades or rockets that are more readily available within Iraq. Plastic explosives are more powerful for their size than many conventional explosives and are a favorite of many terror groups.

...



The official said the bombings have not yet been conclusively linked to al-Qaida. But the type of explosives used and the tactics suggest similarities with al-Qaida's May 12 bombings in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, the official said.


Witness accounts suggest that in at least three of the Baghdad bombings, a second vehicle was used to either distract or confuse perimeter guards, allowing the suicide bomber to slip through and detonate the device. The Riyadh attackers also used lead vehicles as distractions to get explosive-laden vehicles through security. '



1. Use of plastic explosives
2. Coordinated attacks
3. Use of a vehicle to distract guards.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


If you're a policy maker willing to send other people to die to do a job you found it "inconvenient" to your personal plans to do when it was your time, and you give more credence to advice from similar non-serving ideologues who also found their personal ambitions too precious to risk getting their balls shot off, while giving short shrift to advice from professionals who've had their lives on the line, then you are a chickenhawk.

Im a voter, so i guess in that sense im a policy maker. When i was 18 the US was at peace, and most people who joined the military did so cause they found it convenient. When 9/11 happened I was too old to join (and yes I looked it up) And yes, in forming my opinions i give credence to those who never fought as well as to those who did. I also recognize that the military leadership has its own institutional agendas, and that generals and JCS members are highly political, and their advice isnt guaranteed cause they led a platoon in Nam 35 years ago.

[Ned]

MtG, alright. What would you have done in Vietnam if you were elected president in 1968?

[chequita guevara]

Ned, are you assuming that Nixon didn't run, and thus didn't sabotage the Paris Peace talks in 1968? Then all MtG had to do was withdraw. The war would have been over for us.