reporters sans frontiers

[Q Classic]

has published their list of the most and least free countries, press-wise.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=8247

suomi-speakers will be happy, finland is ranked 1st, alongside island, nederlands, and that norsk-speaking country.

the american republic and one of its models, the hellenic republic, both are tied at 31.

israel and japan are tied, at 44, and skorea is just a little further behind, at 49. china's abysmally low, at 161.

nkorea is in last place: 166.

[Spiffor]

Re: reporters sans frontiers

Originally posted by Q Cubed
china's abysmally low, at 161.
nkorea is in last place: 166.

Wow, not bad. But sadly, a ranking cannot show the qualitative gap between #165 and #166. I mean, in other countries, you can at least travel there.

[Dinner]

Any report which claims America is in the worst 15% of countries with reguards to press freedom is simply a joke.

Reports like this do not use any sort of concrete measuing stick and so just end up being subjective popularity polls. "I like so and so but I don't like these other people" type situations which renders the entire report meaningless.

[Spiffor]

Nevermind what I said. Here is #165:

Cuba is in 165th position, second from last. Twenty-six independent journalists were arrested in the spring of 2003 and sentenced to prison terms ranging from 14 to 27 years, making Cuba the world's biggest prison for journalists.

Oerdin:
The US in is the 15% lowest when it comes to its dealing with journalists abroad. It is #31 for its dealings with journalists at home.

[Q Classic]

Wow, not bad. But sadly, a ranking cannot show the qualitative gap between #165 and #166. I mean, in other countries, you can at least travel there.

article only refers to freedom of the press.

Any report which claims America is in the worst 15% of countries with reguards to press freedom is simply a joke.

how's the freedom of the press in iraq, i wonder?
if you read again, they have two ratings for both america and israel, one inside their borders and one outside.

indeed, i mention that america itself is 31st.

[Dinner]

It still just boils down to a none scientific popularity contest which has little to no bearing upon reality.

Also I suspect they are taking one very isolated case (Gitmo) and are trying to pretend it is some sort of monsterous act of censorship. The fact that the Geneva and Hague conventions outlaw turning prisoners into public specticals or objects of public curiocity wasn't even taken into account by the writers of this report. That they would drop a country more then 100 places for abiding by international law is a total joke.

[Q Classic]

? i believe they're referring more to things like banning al-jazeera in iraq.

i doubt finland turns prisoners into public spectacles.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
i doubt finland turns prisoners into public spectacles.

I'm talking about Gitmo not Finland. Many new agencies have complained that they aren't allowed to make the prisoners into public specticals by interviewing them and running nonstop coverage on them.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'm talking about Gitmo not Finland. Many new agencies have complained that they aren't allowed to make the prisoners into public specticals by interviewing them and running nonstop coverage on them.

This may have to do with the fact that US is called 31st at home. But the 165th position abroad seems to come solely from the US behaviour in the war in Iraq. At least, only Iraq is emphasized to explain the result.

[Dinner]

Since no one is disagreeing that the criteria and ranking is highly subjective and opinionated does that mean you all agree this report just boils down to a popularity contest?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Spiffor

This may have to do with the fact that US is called 31st at home. But the 165th position abroad seems to come solely from the US behaviour in the war in Iraq. At least, only Iraq is emphasized to explain the result.

Which does nothing to disprove his point, that these "findings" are nothing more than popularity pieces as to whether you "like" this country more than that one.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Since no one is disagreeing that the criteria and ranking is highly subjective and opinionated does that mean you all agree this report just boils down to a popularity contest?

A popularity contest whose jury comes from most democratic countries concerned. The ranking was compiled through a questionnaire sent to local journalists or "people with an extensive knowledge of press freedom in that area". There were 53 criteria to determine the final note. Some of these criteria are objective (presence of state monopoly, presence of a regulatory commission, presence of State or non-State pressure groups etc.), some other are subjective.

It is far from being the most scientific accurate study, but it is blatantly false to reduce it to a popularity contest.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It is far from being the most scientific accurate study, but it is blatantly false to reduce it to a popularity contest.

That remains to be seen. We'd have to look at the questinaire because there are a million things which could be wrong or right about it. Also I'd very much like to know the ratio of objective criteria (I.E. how many reporters were imprisoned compared to the total number of reporters; this is a hard number) verse subjective (how do you feel about country X?) criteria. If there are few objective and tons of subjective criteria then I would say it was a popularity contest.

[Combat Ingrid]

This study is obviously flawed since US is not #1

[DanS]

how's the freedom of the press in iraq, i wonder?

Pretty good, nowadays. Apparently, they dinged us for accidentally shooting two journalists.

I guess the one was where the tank shot at the hotel where the journalists were staying and where our boys thought reporters were being held hostage. The other one was the al Jazeera reporter who got a cruise missile planted in his office. Of course, they don't mention that the war and its aftermath have been covered by many thousands of journalists.