Did World War 2 Humble Germany?

[FrostyBoy]

I get that impression that Germany has become humbled by its bad history, is that true or not?

[Zero]

more like neutered.

[Jon Shafer]

All of the Germans I know except one view being proud of their country as something to be ashamed of.

[Drake Tungsten]

Neutered doesn't go far enough. "Sex-change operation" is more accurate.

[mrmitchell]

Well, probably that plus being split for 50 years

[Zero]

Originally posted by Trip
All of the Germans I know except one view being proud of their country as something to be ashamed of.

i dont see why it should be that way.

[Ted Striker]

yeah

duh

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Neutered doesn't go far enough. "Sex-change operation" is more accurate.

Exactly.

The Germans have very deeply changed since WW2. They have tried to open their society. Authority and Discipline are not German values anymore. The quick appropriation of the American lifestyle, and of as many English words as possible, also show that something tagged as "German" is somehow shameful.

Besides, what Trip said is true. The Germans are nothing like what they were 60 years ago, save for the work ethics.

But when arriving in power 5 years ago, Schröder has tried to decomplex the German population, by trying to have the Germans proud of their non-nazi achievements. The Germans seem to begin rediscovering that they have brought many good things to the world too. At last.

[Dis]

but is that really a good thing?

it could lead to a rise in nationalism.

[MRT144]

so is german nationalism bad? how about american nationalism? what about nationalism in general?

[Chemical Ollie]

It did. But did Vietnam humble USA?

[Nubclear]

No.

[Dis]

it did for a few years until reagon took office.

and yes german nationalism isn't as bad as american nationalism only because they don't have the military to back it up

[Spiffor]

Dissident:
I think it is a good think for two reasons:

1. The Germans don't deserve to live in a permanent guilt and weep. This country brought many great things to the world (impressive literature, science, philosophy, industry), and not only the most horrible deed of modernity. To acknowledge this heritage is to do it justice.
Besides, the guilt has gotten so much out of hand that it was frowned upon to merely state the allies weren't purely nice guys, or to dare criticize today's Israel or Jewish Community (several well known Germans were called "antisemite" -probably the worst insult for a German- because they dared do this). It is impossible to have a serious debate on many issues with that.

2. If the governments don't reinstill a feeling of national pride progressively, some chancer would do it brutally at the first political crisis. I think it is much better to have a reasonable German pride, than some revisionist horror claiming that Germany is always right, the exact opposite that what the Germans believed for the past 60 years

And no, I'm no friend with Schröder's gov

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor
If the governments don't reinstill a feeling of national pride progressively, some chancer would do it brutally at the first political crisis. I think it is much better to have a reasonable German pride, than some revisionist horror claiming that Germany is always right, the exact opposite that what the Germans believed for the past 60 years

That's a good point.